Illinois Sangamo

[cons14]

Hello all,

Went to visit my local watch maker and he brought out a restore 16s Illinois Sangamo s#1567584. Found in an old box of parts. VERY nice 2-tone wavy ribbon movement. The movement looks and runs new considering it's age. The same can't be said about the dial. Dial completely faded with no hands. Does anyone have a picture to share of their Illinois Sangamo to compare? Thank you in advance.

[terry hall]

Try this link...

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=3;gtid=269205

found here

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=3;gtid=284686

[Fred Hansen]

I'd expect the Sangamo movement you describe to look a lot like this ...

http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6eaG%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3AxxrKUp7BHD7Kofrj%3DQofrj 7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQQQexoloxaPax v8uOc5xQQQ0GQ0lQnee0qpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPGJ %7CRup6aQQ%7C/of=50,434,442

This damaskeen is known as the gold inlaid ribbon pattern, and was made in either yellow or pink (it is pink above) 2-tone color.

This damaskeen was the typical pattern used on the earlier Sangamo and began with the first Sangamo run at the 1.369 million serial number range and lasting until about the 1.602 million serial number range, after which the most typical damaskeen for the Sangamo was replaced at 1.608 million serial number by the "bright spotted" (not a 2-tone) pattern that lasted as the main design until the end of Sangamo production at 2.537 million serial number.

From what I've seen gold inlaid ribbon damaskeened Sangamos in the 1.3 million range will have yellow 2-tone coloring, those in the 1.4 million range will be seen either yellow or pink 2-tone but with the majority being yellow, and those in the 1.5 and 1.6 million will have pink 2-tone color.

The Illinois Sangamo grade is a great watch and there are a number of variants of these to collect. Here is a little more general information on the grade ...

- produced between about 1897 and 1913

- 16 size watches made in the model 4 and 5 design (single visible winding wheel, known as the "Getty" model). Not to be confused with the later "Sangamo Special" grade which was made in 16 size grades 8, 9, and 10 and in 17 size grades 10 and 13.

- total production for the Sangamo grade is shown in Russ Snyder's Illinois database as 33721. Across this total production about 70% are 21 jewel, about 30% are 23 jewel, less than 1% in 25 jewel, and a single example is recorded in 19 jewel. Also across the total production about 80% of the Sangamo are open face and about 20% are hunting case.

- main damaskeen patterns for factory marked Sangamos are gold inlaid ribbon or bright spotted, but other patterns do exist including some mostly gold patterns and a parallel striped pattern.

- Some are signed "Extra" or "Special" on the movement, those signed "Extra" are typically bright spotted damaskeened while those signed "Special" typically have a mainly gold damaskeen pattern

- a number of private-labels were made from the Sangamo grade, but none were made in very large total number. All known 25 jewel movements are private-label marked "Benjamin Franklin"

- Sangamo signed cases for these watches do exist but are scarce and are found among a few later 23 jewel movements.


Fred

[cons14]

Fred,

That was quick work! Yes. That would be the one! Looks great in person. I look forward to getting it cleaned up and shown.

[Fred Hansen]

Sounds good and I'd love to see it pictured here when you are done!

Fred

[cons14]

Fred,

I've taken a couple of pictures of the Sangamo. As you can see the movement and case look great. The hands are not matching and the dial looks off? I haven't been able to fine a correct sample of an accurate dail and hands?

[terry hall]

Nothing wrong with the style of that dial.... it was available then... and could very well be original to the movement.
it would look a bit better with a soaking... many threads on here about dial cleaning...

Yes, it would be 'better' if hand style matched... and if in a long pendant case...

but :?|

[Fred Hansen]

Looks nice and thanks for posting!

As Terry wrote the dial is just fine to the watch and this is one of the styles that was used on the Sangamos and other top grade Getty models for just a few years around 1900 (your watch dates to about 1901). And also as Terry wrote the appearance would be much improved with a good cleaning that will remove some of the dirt from in the hairline cracks and should greatly reduce their visibility.

Fred