Waltham "Zilman Watch Co"

[Vic Kuring]

Yeterday I found, at a jewerly store close out, a couple of watches with potential. One of them is a AWWCO 17j mdl 1899 grade 625. Both the dial and the movement is marked "Zilman Watch Co". What intrigues me about this watch is that the private label marking appears on the pillar plate, underneath the balance.

Is this a common location to mark the private label on a movement?
How common are the Zilman private label watches?

Thanks in advance!

[Jerry Treiman]

I have never seen the Zilman name on a Waltham, nor do I recall seeing a private-label name on the pillar plate of a '99 model. Can you post a picture of the movement and dial and/or share the serial number with us?

[Vic Kuring]

Here are the pictures. The serial number is 15831450.

[Vic Kuring]

It actually says "Zilman Watch & Co" on the pillar plate. I didn't notice the "&" until after I removed the balance and bridge.

[Jerry Treiman]

I suspect that the markings and dial were added some years after the watch was first made, that is, (in my estimation) it was not originally sent out from the Waltham factory this way. The "& Co." looks a little crooked and not as it would normally be done at the factory, and also does not match the dial marking. The dial looks to be a later custom reproduction as the seconds bit is not a true sunk seconds dial, the edges look a little too rounded and the number style is not one that I have seen before on a Waltham watch. The dial company or refinisher may have used some other company's dial as a template. (I have seen numbers like this on Howard, Elgin and some European watches). Note also how the minute marks overlap the seconds bit at the bottom. However, I do not have any estimate as to when this might have been done.

[BrianC]

Nice observations Jerry and I agree with what you say.
Brian C.

[Vic Kuring]

Hello Jerry,

You certainly are observant. After reading your reply and looking closer I have to agree. A second and more closer look does tell me that both the dial & the marking don't appear as factory perfect.

Seems like a heck of a lot of work for someone to do. I can understand modifying/personalizing the dial but marking the pillar?

Is there any more information on Zilman?

Is this type of personalization common?

Thanks!