2 Questions...

[Bryan Eyring]

1) Am I correct in identifying this AWC serial number 470646 as first run for both this grade and model?

and

2) Does the J. Boss marking on this case coincide with the vintage of the movement?

For what it's worth, both holes on the outside of the cuvette have matching reeding around their circumferences. But I also know that select talented jewelers could perform this op afterwards.
So can anyone confirm that J. Boss did in fact make cases for the model 70'?
Thanks in advance for any help on this one. I would just like to know if it is all original or not.

Regards,
Bryan Eyring
132532

[Tom McIntyre]

For your first question, there is only one grade in this model and your example is from the first run. 470501 was the first serial number for the 1870 model.

It is rumored there will be a Bulletin article on the 1870 Crescent St. some day. :)

[Tom Huber]

Bryan, I think your case is original. J Boss patented his gold filled process in 1859, so it is entirely possible that he made cases for the model 70.

BTW, nice watch.

Tom

[beta21]

The winding hole on this mvt is in a somewhat different position than on other 18s mvt. Almost right at the "12". This position might be unique to the mvt, I believe.
If this were a recase, you should see evidence of that around the winding hole. The case being gold filled (I assume) and it would be very hard to make a nice shift of the hole position, as opposed to solid silver where the old hole can be filled and a new one opened with minor visible traces of the shift.
The setting hole can of course have been opened afterwards without obvious traces, so look at the winding hole

Peter

[terry hall]

'most' 1870CS in 'original' cases I have seen have the word "hands" engraved around the setting hole ....

comments there????

[Jon Hanson]

'most' 1870CS in 'original' cases I have seen have the word "hands" engraved around the setting hole ....

comments there????




T,

Many do not have the signature around the winding holes.

B,

I believe this could be a second generation case, as I have seen several hand fulls of early KW Howard GF cases that were 2nd generaton ones.

And, for this to have been made up--what about an extra case screw mark and the usual 18s KW hole filled? I do not seen them, nor did you tell me when you called!

All,

Tom M. is supposd to do an article on these as I supplied him with a bunch of serial numbers some time ago. Where is the ARTICLE?
Jon

[Bryan Eyring]

Thank you everyone for your help.

Regarding the case, there appears to be no signs of filled holes and there are no other case screw marks. It appears to be correct.

Jon - The point about the case being 2nd gen is a very valid one. I had never thought of it but it is very possible. Whatever the case, I am fairly impressed with the depth of the gold fill on this J. Boss. It is weathered but does not exhibit any signs of brass except at the hinges.

Another cool feature about this watch is the fact that the dial is secured via screws and not pins. This is the earliest American movement that I have see this method of fastening the dial. That said, I was sure to inspect the dial feet for cross holes - and there were none there!

If anyone can help, I am in need of a 4th wheel and escape wheel for this guy. Appears that someone released the ratchet or the barrel lid popped and the rapid release of power stripped this portion of the train. The pinions and pivots are good, so I am only in need of the wheels.

Thanks,
Bryan