setting time on key-set early PS Bartlett

[andy b.]

greetings, all! i haven't visited in a while (so long ago in fact that i needed to re-register). i have a 18S P.S. Bartlett, sn 316776. i have been searching for some answers to questions i have regarding setting the time, and all i come up with is that you use a key to set the time by putting it onto the square stud on the watch face. well, duh, i understand that. :)
what i want to know is do you always turn the hands in a clockwise rotation? what if the watch is 15 minutes fast? i can't imagine turning the hands forward thru 11:45. that seems as though it would wear things out in a hurry.
also, if the watch would lose 10 minutes per day, for example, should it be reset every day, or just once a week, or...?

i want to start wearing this watch every day, but i want to be sure i don't do anything to cause undue wear. i used to wear a digital wrist watch for the longest time, then went to a quartz analog watch, and then to a mechanical watch. i don't have anywhere to be that a few minutes early or late will matter, so i figure i may as well start carrying the old Bartlett, as it is a very nice pocket watch.

thanks,

andy b.

[StanJS]

Andy,

About 25 years ago I used to wear a coin silver HC PS Bartlett every day that was about 100,000 later in serial number than yours.

First, if it is losing 10 minutes a day, get the sucker cleaned and oiled before you wear it.

Second, it's been a while, but as I recall you can set the time by rotating the hands counterclockwise.

Cheers,
Stan

[Kent]

Hi Andy:

Welcome (back) to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

You can turn the hands either way.

If the watch is losing ten minutes a day, it needs to be serviced. A P.S. Bartlett should be able to keep much better time than that, say within a minute or two per day or better.

If you are going to carry a mechanical watch every day, plan on getting it cleaned and ooled every three-four years.

I see that Stan is a slightly faster typer then I am.

Good luck,

[andy b.]

THANKS for the replies!
my "10 minutes a day" comment was just an example. from what i'm seeing the watch is holding within a couple of minutes a day. i haven't worn it in about two years, but it was serviced prior to that. i wound it Sunday and was checking the accuracy before i started carrying it again (yes, i know wearing it will affect accuracy as compared to it sitting on a shelf running). i just wasn't sure what direction i could turn the hands and if i should tweak the time daily or just once a week or something.

thanks again. now to add some watch pockets to some pants.

andy b.

[Jerry Bryant]

Andy,

I've been collecting American antique pocket watches for going on three years, and my collection includes many keywind/keyset movements. A couple of years ago, I had asked a watchmaker the same question about the proper direction to turn the hands to set the time on a keywind movement. I was told to only turn KWKS movement hands clockwise, or risk damage to the movement. Without further explanation, I have observed this method, even when it meant turning the hands around clockwise to adjust for as little as a minute or two.

Since now I have learned that a school of thought exists that contradicts the "clockwise only rule" for moving/setting KWKS hands, I'd sure appreciate some reassurance that either-way-is-okay!?:o

Perhaps a statement about this, directly from a watchmaker who specializes in, and, makes his living from, working on KWKS movements would be helpful at this juncture. BTW, this is certainly not, in any way, meant to usurp the helpful advice of either Stan or Kent, but only as a means of seeking clarification for myself. I would cheerfully give up the aggravation of limiting myself to "clockwise only" with my KWKS movements! Thanks!

Jerry
Punctuation correction.
Grammar correction.

[Tom Huber]

Jerry, I have a Waltham, model 77, KW/KS that I can only set clockwise. The problem with it is that the cannon pinion is very tight on the center post. From experience, I have learned that if the watch is running, and I move the hands counter clockwise, it will cause the balance to overbank. Maybe an example like this is what the watchmaker meant.

Tom

[John Pavlik]

On an American key wind watch, setting only involves moving the cannon pinion, hour and minute wheel. If turning these back wards damages the watch it would also damage the watch when it is running clockwise..as Tom said the only thing connecting the setting and the watch train is cannon pinion friction..His Mdl 77 needs the cannon pinion loosened..if it is stopping the watch when setting counterclock wise..

[Bryan Eyring]

Early repeaters and complications require the hands to be set clockwise. Moving them counter clockwise can damage the mechanisms. Same with some early American clocks. That may well be what he hinted at...

Regards,
Bryan

[Jerry Bryant]

For me, common sense dictates that with any of these antique KW/KS movements, The Rule, "when-in-doubt-don't", must be applied. I highly subscribe to the idea that it would be far more judicious to take the extra time required to move KW/KS hands clockwise only, than to risk damage. Equally important - would be to enlist the services of a professional watchmaker, who possesses the specialized skills and experience with KW/KS movements, to make the necessary "fine tuning" adjustments to the cannon pinion, that would allow trouble-free bi-directional setting of the KW/KS hands!

Jerry

[Veritas]

I have come across the problem of tight and loose cannon pinions.I tightened one as the hands barely moved on the watch.I set all my pocket watches cw.Just because mostly what i was told long ago.I would prefer to just do this as a safety rule for my self.
I own 4 key winds and i dont carry them but should one day.Interesting thread.

[John Pavlik]

Jerry,

Common sense and mechanical function are 2 different things..This setting myth on American keywinds, is the same as a watch being over wound..If a person does not know what the problem is with a mechanical watch many times they invent a story to rationalize it ..with out any knowledge if it is true..and as usual, it grows bigger each time it is told..these watches from the 1870's or so are rugged machines.. they have lasted 140 years and preform quite nicely yet.. design principals would indicate such a fault, as turning the hands backwards destorys something, I believe there would not be any surviors left after 140 years ..The notion that a Amerivcan Watch Co Mdl 1857 is a fragile machine is not credible.. Drop it from 5 feet on to a concrete slab, and yes it will break, but so will most other objects..Last what would be the difference between key set and stem set.. Can you only set the crown wind hands one way also ?? The transmission of main wheel motion to the hands is exactly the same..Use it as it is intended, to keep time, and setting the hands however you like, it will last another 140 years ...

[beta21]

It it has to be remembered that the greatest risk when setting these key setters is to break the hands, scratching the dial, or on some watches snapping the setting pin.

This is a reality. Breaking anything else isn't.

If you spend more time setting the watch than needed, believing it must only be turned clockwise, you increase the risk of doing damage by slipping with the key or unintendedly tilting it and breaking the pin.

Peter

[Jerry Bryant]

Jerry,

Common sense and mechanical function are 2 different things..This setting myth on American keywinds, is the same as a watch being over wound..If a person does not know what the problem is with a mechanical watch many times they invent a story to rationalize it ..with out any knowledge if it is true..and as usual, it grows bigger each time it is told..these watches from the 1870's or so are rugged machines.. they have lasted 140 years and preform quite nicely yet.. design principals would indicate such a fault, as turning the hands backwards destorys something, I believe there would not be any surviors left after 140 years ..The notion that a Amerivcan Watch Co Mdl 1857 is a fragile machine is not credible.. Drop it from 5 feet on to a concrete slab, and yes it will break, but so will most other objects..Last what would be the difference between key set and stem set.. Can you only set the crown wind hands one way also ?? The transmission of main wheel motion to the hands is exactly the same..Use it as it is intended, to keep time, and setting the hands however you like, it will last another 140 years ...

John,

If you will refer back to my post where I made a reference to applying "common sense", you will also note that farther along in this same paragraph, I directly address the, "mechanical function" concept (in my own terms), as equally important; (hence, and, quoting from my post): "...enlist the services of a professional watchmaker, who possesses the specialized skills and experience with KW/KS movements, to make the necessary "fine tuning" adjustments to the cannon pinion, that would allow trouble-free bi-directional setting of the KW/KS hands!" I believe the bottom line reveals that we are in complete, and, harmonious agreement!:)

I always appreciate the wealth of enlightening information that is unselfishly shared by the contributors of this NAWCC MB. Posting here goes a long way toward helping to preserve these wonderful American antique pocket watches, for which each of us serve only as temporary caretakers, in preparation to pass them on to the next generation of future "caretakers".

Jerry

[andy b.]

WOW! i didn't anticipate this much interest in such a simple question. :o

for the record, this 140-year-old watch seems to be running about 16 seconds slow per day. i believe it will suffice. :thumb: plus, any time adjustments will be in the clockwise direction. :)

andy b.