Hamilton 992E

[Watchfan]

Gentlemen,
How many 992E have been produced? In the same condition is the value of a 992E is higher than a 992-B?Thanks

[Robert Sweet]

Watchfan,
There were approx. 60,997 Hamilton 992 Elinvars made between 1931 and 1940.

Sorry, due to message board rules, we are unable place values or give apprasial on timepieces. See upper top left on message board.

Robert

[Watchfan]

Thanks Robert. I was not asking for a price I wanted to know if a 992E is more expensive than a 992-B.
Thanks again.

[Fred Hansen]

Both of these are high enough production that they each show up often for sale.

If you were an NAWCC member you could see multiple examples of each at any larger sized show. There also are usually a number at any time on eBay, and you can run a completed items search there to get a quick idea of ballpark prices for each.

Remember though that on top of condition there are other factors that can strongly influence the price of these two watches ... dial style, case style, lower production damaskeen variant for the 992E, low serial number for the 992B, etc.

Fred

[rrstd]

Watchfan,

Everything else being equal, I think it's safe to say that the 992E is valued higher by most collectors than the 992B.

[Watchfan]

Thank you for your answers gentlemen.

[Watchfan]

Would you believe that this afternoon I've received an email from a Toronto collector saying:Beware about 50% of the Elinvar watches don't have an Elinvar spring or balance wheel. You can check the
colour of the hair spring and the balance wheel which is solid and steel.

What do you think about this message.
Regards.

[Tom McIntyre]

I think from looking at my examples that the watches have an Elinvar hairspring with a balance having an Invar cross arm and stainless steel rim. The construction must be the same as the ovalizing balance on the model 21 chronometer. There are lots of screws on the balance rim.

I recall that some Elinvar hairsprings or the Conel from Waltham and whatever Elgin called them were died blue to look more like regular hairsprings. I don't know if any were used in the later watches.

I would say your email was wild speculation and not accurate in my experience.

[Robert Sweet]

I agree with Tom. I doubt that Hamilton would ever put their reputation on the line, especially advertising the Elinvar hairspring with ads such as the one below.

With the "Great Depression" in progress when the 992 Elinvar was introduced, it would seem completely out of order for any company to act in that manner.

Robert

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2415/2270591232_66c87c5165_o.jpg

[Watchfan]

Thanks gentlemen for your comments which are appreciated.

[Kent]

Ah, but ....

Communication is unbeliebably quick these days. Larry Treiman called me to correct my earlier statement in this post:

In conversations he had with AT&SF watch inspectors in the 1970s, they told him that in the 1940s, inspectors who were having problems with watches having the original the elinvar hairsprings in the 992Es (and, I suppose the 950Es, although he didn't specifically state it) and Bunn Special Elinvar watches, were told to not work on them, but to send them directly to the AT&SF Chief Inspector in Topeka who would thenfit the watches with Elinvar-Extra hairsprings.

I'm not certain, but I think that balances also needed to be changed. Larry may have said so,but I didn't write it down and can't remember now.

[Don Dahlberg]

Swiss Elinvar was very soft and difficult to work on. It would sag under its own weight creating greater positional errors. It was easily distorted. That is why Hamilton worked over five years to create a new variation on Elinvar, called Elinvar Extra, that had the stiffness of steel and the antimagnetic and temperature properties of Swiss Elinvar. I can well imagine that 992E were upgraded Elinvar Extra by those who were not satisfied with Swiss Elinvar. I am sure this required getting a new matched balance with the hairspring.

I have not found any records of this, but it seems reasonable since they could just order a complete balance with hairspring.

Don

[Watchfan]

Gentlemen,
Would you say that this dial fits with a 992Elinvar movement serial 2624075, housed in a Wadsworth model 10 BOC case which number is H167173 patent 5-22-26. This is the first time I see a similar dial with a 992E. Is this dial an original or replacement one.

[RON in PA]

It is impossible to know for sure, but if the original purchase of your 992E was for railroad use the pictured dial would not be allowed as it has Roman and not Arabic numbers. If the watch was purchased for just personal timekeeping than the original owner may have requested that his/her jeweler substitute the Roman numeral dial. Whatever the case, the dial is not typical.

[terry hall]

Whatever the case, the dial is not typical.

Indeed !

The case and movement seem to be contemporary to each other....

Would like to see the rear of that dial before making an opinion of it being a factory dial...

[Watchfan]

Thank you gentlemen for your comments. I cannot show you the back of the dial Terry because I have not purchased the watch offered to me by a Canadian collector. I don't like dials with Roman numbers.All the 992Es that have seen had Arabic numbers. Thanks again.

[Robert Sweet]

This particular dial doesn't show up in any of the dial references that I have.

I have found the same dial with the script signature.

Robert

[Don Dahlberg]

There is no 16 size dial with Roman Numerials in the 1935 materials catalog. I have seen no blueprints for Hamilton 16 size Roman dials from the 1930s to the end of the company. If it is a Hamilton dial, then I suspect it is a very old dial.

Don

[Foster Miller]

By no means do I consider myself an expert on any subject; however Hamilton 992e's spark my interest; currently having 11 of them in my collection. I would also suspect that the dial was replaced by either a much older dial or a re-creation.

I quess it is possible that the origional owner had the dial installed at the jewlers- but highly unlikely. I would think that the vast majority of the Roman Numerial dials in the 16 size should have 4 foot pattern, not the 3 foot pattern on 992e's. I too would like to see the back of the dial-.


Based upon the picture provided, the model 10 case looks really good. My only other comment would be to ask if that dial was "approved" for Canadian RR use; since the watch is located there presently.- although based upon the case condition- it does not appear to be used/abused.