E. Howard/Keystone Railroad Pocket Watch Serial Numbers

[Watch Cipher]

Can anyone tell me how to date and precisely ID a gold E. Howard pocket watch with a Keystone Watch Case Co. case? The serial number on the works inside the watch is 1104857 and has been in my family since at least 1920, having been used by my great grandfather who was a conductor on the 20th Century Ltd. I'm thinking it's about 1912, but i'm hoping to find some sort of record perhaps even to the original owner. Thanks.

[Tom McIntyre]

There are no surviving records from the E. Howard Watch Co. The earliest serial numbers are in the 800,000's from about 1903. It is likely that the numbers werre blocked out by grade so it would help to know what the writing on the movement is, or better yet, a picture.

1912 is probably a reasonable date for 1.1 million.

[Kent]

Hi Watch Cipher:

Welcome to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

It sounds like you have a 19-jewel, 16-size, open-face watch which is a grade that Keystone-Howard later marked as the Series 5. 1912 or 1913 sounds about right for the date. The rate of production of Keystone-Howard watches was not always a constant. Thus, serial number vs. date tables that are based upon dividing the overall range of serial numbers by the total years the watches were in production just don't apply. This means that determining the date of a movement is very difficult beyond a few key dates.

The grades of many Keystone-Howard movements are identified by their series numbers. Later 16-size movements were marked with the series numbers, but not the earlier ones. This fact has caused a great deal of confusion in identifying the series of unmarked movements, especially the 21-jewel series 1 and 10, and the 17-jewel series 2, 3, 4 and 9. Dr. Selman (Sandy) Berger discusses the subject in great detail in his article "Some Aspects Regarding the Significance and Evolution of Model Number Designations for Keystone Howard Watches," NAWCC Bulletin, June 2001, pages 305-309. Essentially, the only indication of the movement series numbers in Keystone-Howard catalogs is in the complete watch catalog number. The catalog numbers are two, three or four digits. The two rightmost digits of a catalog number identify case material and style and the remaining digit(s) to the left are the series number. In the instances of two digit catalog numbers, the movement is the 23-jewel series 0. As an example, watch catalog No. 13 (written that way in lieu of No. 013 - the zero is understood) is a 23-jewel, series 0 movement in a 18 K, solid gold, extra heavy, engine-turned hunting-case. Similarly, catalog No. 413 is a 17-jewel, series 4 movement in the same case.

If all of this seems confusing, welcome to the club. Even experienced collectors have a problem understanding Keystone-Howard's series numbering system, especially as it applies to their 3/4-plate, 16-size movements. There's still a lot to be learned about it.

It would be helpful if you could post a picture of the movement (the "works"), the clearer and sharper, the better, other pictures will help, but this is the most important. We may be able to more positively identify it by the shape of the plates. Pictures showing the whole case, inside markings, outside front and back, will help us identify the case part of the catalog number.

To post an image, scroll to the top of the thread and click on the "help" button. When the "Help - FAQs" box opens, click on the question "How do I upload an image with my post? and follow the instructions. Note that there is no indication of attaching a file (picture) until you go to actually post your thread or your reply. The picture does not show up in the "Instant Reply" text box in which you've written your thread or your reply, nor does the picture appear in the "Preview"

Its also helpful if you can post all the markings that are on the movement (the "works") in case they can't be seen in the picture(s).

Pictures and some catalog information on Keystone-Howard watches can be viewed at the excellent E. Howard Watch Co. (http://www.awco.org/EHowardWatch/index.htm) website. Additional pictures and more information can be viewed at Howard Pocket Watches 1858-1930 (http://www.oldwatch.com/howard.html). It is believed that all Keystone-Howard watches were furnished in Howard-signed gold, or gold-filled Keystone or Crescent (a Keystone company) cases. Thus, the case ought to be marked "Howard Watch Co." in addition to Keystone or Crescent markings. . Keystone-Howard’s railroad grade watches are discussed in some detail in the NAWCC Bulletin, April 1999, pages 191-206.

Good luck,

[Watch Cipher]

Many thanks to Tom and Kent for your responses and help. I've taken a couple of pictures with the best images I can muster. Thanks for your help gentlemen!
Doug

[Kent]

Hi Doug:

Your watch case is gold-filled, indicated by the balance (scales) trade mark. Your pictures fail to show some of the significant parts of the case, nor did you post any of the markings, so the below information may not be fully applicable. But, let's try anyway. The information below comes from page 13 of Howard Watches – An Illustrated Description of the Complete Series of Howards – Including the Latest Developments in this Celebrated Watch, E. Howard Watch Works, Waltham, Mass, September, 1912, reprinted by Vintage Catalogs (http://www.vintagecatalogs.com/ ), 2003. This applies if, and only if, your watch is in its original case is signed "E. Howard Watch Co. - Boston" (or some such variation) in addition to the Keystone markings and that the case is marked "Extra."

"16-size, 19-jewel
Railroad Standard
Bridge Model
Hunting or Open Face
(Open Face supplied either Pendant or Lever Setting)

"The Open-face lever-setting model of this movement, when fitted in the Howard special dust-proof, Swing Ring case, is especially recommended for railroad service and for the use of railroad men (see page 40 - Kent's Note: Pages 40-1 further describe the swing ring case). Extra five-position adjustment. 19 fine jewels – going parts of barrel jeweled.”

“ ‘Crescent’ Extra
No. 550 Plain - $62.50
No. 560 E. T. - $62.50”

“or ‘Jas. Boss’ Extra Gold Filled
No. 555 Plain - $60.00
No. 565 E. T. - $60.00
Screw Bezel, Solid Back, Swing Ring, Dust Proof
No. 575 Plain - $60.00
No. 585 E. T. - $60.00”

There is nothing to indicate that, except for the Swing Ring cases, none of the cases are anything but hinged, double-bace cases, such as your case is. Also, the open-face, lever-set movement did not have to be in a swing ring case to be accepted into railroad time service.

Please let us know if the watch is lever set, exactly what the markings are, and back design of the case.

Thanks,

[Watch Cipher]

Kent,
Thanks for your great feedback. I will try to get a shot up of the pattern on the back of the watch case and can answer most of your other questions. The interior of the watch does bear the marking "Extra adjustment five positions temperature" and the inside back bears the marking "Extra J.Boss". I can't find any three digit numbers though. It is also open face and there is a small lever at the 1:00 position that pulls out, which i assume is what you mean by lever set? Thanks Kent,
Doug

[Kent]

... I can't find any three digit numbers though. It is also open face and there is a small lever at the 1:00 position that pulls out, which i assume is what you mean by lever set? ...
Doug


Doug:

Thanks for the information about your watch.

You won't find the three-digit catalog number anywhere on the case or movement because any grade movement can be put in any grade case, so there are a large number of possible catalog numbers for the combinations. So, putting the catalog number on the watch just isn't done with jewelled American watches. Rarely, in American watches, the case is marked with the same serial number as the movement. Usually , this is only done with very expensive watches and perhaps custom-made cases.

Yes, the lever at the 1:00 (actually 6 minute) position is pulled out to connect the hands to the winding crown (knob at the top of the stem) to allow the hands to be set. This is indeed what if meant by the term "lever-set.

Good luck,