Mismatched Parts!...Is this the norm?

[bchaps]

I'm working hard trying to learn how to diagnose running problems. But of late, it almost seems the clients are intentionally testing me with curve balls.

Just cleaned an old key wind 18s Elgin GM Wheeler. Replaced upper and lower balance hole jewels, restaffed the balance, and installed a new hairspring. It all went well and I am excited!

But after assembling the movement, the balance seems to drag while crossing the fork. I carefully looked at the action under 40x. Everything appears to be OK...but the jewel definitely drags while going through the fork. Pulled the balance...without the balance in place, the fork snaps when manually actuated. Next I measured the roller jewel..it measures .47mm. Put the feeler in the fork and it measures .42mm. Is it any wonder it drags...trying to push .47 through .42!!!! Why would anyone install an over sized jewel :?|

As I overhaul more watches, should I expect to find problems like this? Is this normal?

Bill

[Vic Kuring]

I'm suprised that the watch ran at all with a jewel that much greater in size. Is the jewel correctly aligned in the roller table? I'm thinking it must be slightly leaning in towards the staff.

Does not shock me that you found such a problem. The older the watch the better the chances that it has been "messed" with during a "repair".

:thumb:

[Snide]

Bill-

I'm curious, do the serial numbers on the balance match the watch?

Below is a watch that I purchased at the Cleveland National 2 summers ago. You will note that it has the "Star" regulator and that the serial number is 18064563. Around 16 million Waltham began using th 08 regulator and certainly by 18 million it was used on Model 92s accross the board. So the serial number on the balance wheel is 14194571, which does match the balance cock (oh boy!), but they do not match the rest of the movement. It came with the dial on the right in the second picture. Dials marked "American Waltham Watch Co" were used on Model 92s up to around 9,500,000 when Waltham began using dials marked "Waltham". Then of course, it was not in the original case. It was worth it to me because I have a very nice 2 tone Crescent Street that needed dial number 1 and they are not easy to come by, so I bought it but it goes to show you what some people are doing out there.

Go figure.

Jim

[bchaps]

Vic...you're right and I didn't make it clear, the watch didn't run after overhauling it. The balance was stalling in the fork. I have since installed a .40 mm roller jewel and it's purring like a kitten. :clap:

Jim, I realize "things happen" today, but I just didn't anticipate it in this case because it supposedly was in a drawer for over fifty years. There are obvious signs it has been "monkeyed" with, particularly a lot of "divots" under the balance cock. I have heard this was done to raise the balance cock if the staff was tight against the plate jewels.

There was a number on the balance but it was scratched out. I was not aware the balance carried the movement SN. This staff had a broken and a severely bent pivot. The balance jewels looked like a roto rooter had been boring on them. The hairspring was attached to the cock ..it looked as if the watch had been dropped and set aside. Now I see it couldn't have worked with the larger roller jewel. I just didn't consider someone may have placed a different balance into the movement.

Well, I'll just register this experience as "learning". Expect anything!

Bill

[Vic Kuring]

Besides the balance being different the pallet fork could have been swapped out.

A few years ago I had one with a broken pallet arbor pivot and just swapped pallets -only to end with much the same problem you had, Bill. Took awhile to figure it out but once I did it was an easy matter to swap forks as the particular arbor was a threaded one.

Live & Learn!

Great to hear another old, forgotten, neglected, broken & obsolete keywinder is again up & running!

:thumb:

[EmmaR]

sometimes watches just get "repaired". I have a Hamilton 910 that has a steel pin in the roller, its not orriginal, cos every single balance screw has been messed with to try to balance it up. big job to fix, I just havent got to it yet!

good work in spotting the problem though, these things arent always obvious.

ur doing good!
and yes, keep expecting the worst.
*EMMA*

[hamiltonrrwatch]

My two cents; it's certainly nice, some would say desirable, when everything matches. I would expect serial numbered plates to match. However, balances don't always have the same numbers for a variety of reasons.

Good luck Bill!

Gary