Montgomery Ball dial

[Dbailey]

I remember maybe a year ago, a thread here about Ball watches and how
Webb Ball didn't like the Montgomery dial and wouldn't allow any of the Ball watches to have one...then after his death, that there were some produced and used...just wanted to share this pic of an original porcelain Monty dial in my collection...the mvt being a 999B Ham Ball...would appreciate anyone's further input on the subject, including what the scarcity of these might be....thanks!
Dennis B

[Kent]

Hi Dennis:

Ball's aversion to Montgomery and Ferguson dials can be traced back to at least February 15, 1910. That is the date of a Ball Railroad Time Service circular to the "Local Watch Inspectors" of the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific Railway (the Rock Island Line). In that document Ball stated

Watches having dials with confusing figures spread all over them and around the edge are impractical for Railroad Service, and this will be your authority to rule out any "New Standard Watch" with such dial, when presented for inspection, after this date.

The attached sheet for your guidance illustrates some of the dials above referred to.
Note: The attached sheet had pictures of three dials - a Montgomery dial, a radial marginal minute dial (such as used on Keystone-Howard watches) and a Ferguson marginal minute dial.
The complete document (courtesy Bob Schroeder) can be seen on pages 780-781 of the December 2002 issue of the NAWCC Bulletin.

In a 1920 letter to the editors of Railway Age, following the report of Ball's presentation in that publication, Montgomery pointed out that the management of the Rock Island Line made Ball retract that circular and allow Montgomery dials.

Out of about 275 999Bs in the data base that Ed Ueberall and I maintain, a little over 20 have ORRS Montgomery dials.

Would you please share your watch's serial number with us?

[Dbailey]

Of course Kent, it's #1B18960...although I can't be certain that movement was produced with that dial...thanks for the info!
Dennis B

[Fred Hansen]

Here are photos of a 1925 letter by Sydney Y. Ball of The Ball Railroad Time Service that discussed Montgomery dials (sorry for some overlap of the text in these images) ...


http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKx gXPJJ%3F87KR6xqpxQQQexoloxaPaxv8uOc5xQQQ0oPaQo0Q0a qpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPJJ%7CRup6oao%7C/of=50,590,207

http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKx gXPJl%3F87KR6xqpxQQQexoloxaPaxv8uOc5xQQQ0oPaQo0QJo qpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPJl%7CRup60Je%7C/of=50,590,255

http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKx gXPoe%3F87KR6xqpxQQQexoloxaPaxv8uOc5xQQQ0oPaQo0QJ0 qpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPoe%7CRup60ae%7C/of=50,590,285

Fred

[hamiltonrrwatch]

Here's a Ball Hamilton Canadian dial and the watch it's attached to. Don't know the scarcity of the 18s.

Gary

[Dbailey]

Very nice Gary! I have a couple hundred bucks if you want to rid yourself of it!...lol...
Dennis B

[hamiltonrrwatch]

Thanks Dennis, a beautiful 999B as well. I've always admired that style of Ball case. Do you have a picture of the movement?

Gary

[Jeff Hess]

I have about 5 of them. (ball watches with
Montgomeray dials) I Will be happy to dig them out and share the serial numbers with you Kent, although I think you have one of them recorded.

Sidney really ran the company, more or less from around 1914 forward, with Webb barnstorming around he country with the Saftey First movement, year after year.

Sidney did things his own way really. And was one tough cookie.

I would like to see the rest of that memo Mr Hansen, if possible.

Great thread.

Thanks
Jeff Hess

[Kent]

Gary:

Would you please tell us the serial number of that beauty with the marginal minute dial and the 13-24 hour figures (I'm not sure if it can be called a Montgomery dial - he never defined one as having 13-24 hour numbers)?

Thanks,

[Dbailey]

Yes Gary...here it is:

[hamiltonrrwatch]

Wow Dennis, gorgeous movement! :thumb: It looks like it would have when it left the factory.

I'm sorry I can't post a picture of mine. I'm having both scanner and computer issues tonight.

Thank you,

Gary