Chime Cylinder

[ticktock]

On an 8 hammer chime cyclinder which hammers are the first four notes of the Westminster Chime? How are the hammers numbered e.g. the hammer at the back plate is number 8 or 1?. I do not have gongs to check it out.

Thanks and Happy Memorial Day

tick

[T.J. Kloss]

We need more information. The first quarter of a Westminster chime sequence is a four note descending scale. Which hammers are used could depend on the manufacturer and age of the unit.

Tom :)

“Sometimes you really don’t know if your being rewarded or punished”

[ticktock]

We need more information. The first quarter of a Westminster chime sequence is a four note descending scale. Which hammers are used could depend on the manufacturer and age of the unit.

Tom :)

“Sometimes you really don’t know if your being rewarded or punished”

It is a Hermle 32316. Does this help?

[Scottie-TX]

That no. might mean something to MARK, but to most of us, we look for a sequence of two sets of nos. separated by a hyphen: like 1051-850, 1151-030, 1161-050 - nos. like that.
Now, even without knowing that, you simply look for FOUR pins arranged sequentially on the drum. Regardless of the number of rows, your Westminster will use only FOUR of those rows. When you identify those four sequential pins, you've identified the first quarter chime of your Westminster. Arrangement of hammers - which first: Allowing the pin drum to rotate under power will tell you rod arrangement by direction of drum travel - which hammer is lifted first.

[shutterbug]

Scottie has a good plan. Just be aware that the same four note sequence also occurs at the end of the 3/4 hour chime. You have a 50/50 chance so play it through one hour and if you are getting the four note sequential run at both the 1/4 and 3/4 you've got it :0)

[ticktock]

Sounds good Scottie and thanks Shutterbug.

tick

[Mike Phelan]

Scottie has a good plan. Just be aware that the same four note sequence also occurs at the end of the 3/4 hour chime. You have a 50/50 chance so play it through one hour and if you are getting the four note sequential run at both the 1/4 and 3/4 you've got it :0)


Erm, SB, it is the same four (or 8) notes - the chime barrel (drum) rotates twice in an hour, so there is only one descending scale on the barrel.

TT
AFAIK most if not all chiming clocks use the hammers and rods in order, no problem to time it even with no rods present.
If this is a dual chime, it is better to time it on the Whittington chime - same descending sequence on 1/4 and last peal of 3/4.

Why have you no rods? Interested!

[shutterbug]

Erm, SB, it is the same four (or 8) notes - the chime barrel (drum) rotates twice in an hour, so there is only one descending scale on the barrel.
True enough, but you still have to have it in the right place in relation to the cam :)

[harold bain]

Ticktock, 32316 is an Urgos number for a grandfather movement. Put it to the Westminister setting and see which 4 hammers are being used.

[ticktock]

Scottie has a good plan. Just be aware that the same four note sequence also occurs at the end of the 3/4 hour chime. You have a 50/50 chance so play it through one hour and if you are getting the four note sequential run at both the 1/4 and 3/4 you've got it :0)


Scottie I think I have it. The same 4 hammers strike on both the first quarter hour and at the end of the 3/4 hour chime. Now the striking hammers for these notes are not "in line" meaning 1,2,3,4, or 8,7,6,5 but more like 7,3,2,4.
Is that ok? I don't have a gong setup in the shop to test it.

tick

[shutterbug]

If you're sure about the pins lining up, that has to be it. The wrong hammer can't be struck (unless the cylinder is turned around or out of position) so it should sound right when you install it. The hammer sequence does seem a bit odd though. Try switching it over to the St. Michael and test it again. The 1/4 hour chime should still be in sequence, and so will the hammers (there will be more notes though). If that works, you should be good to go.

[Mike Phelan]

TT, you have done it. :clap:

AFAIK the striking hammers on an 8-note chime are never in line - that would give an awful discord! :o
(Or disCHORD ;))

Job's a good 'un :thumb:

[ticktock]

Thanks to everyone!

tick(i)

[shutterbug]

Mike - I was questioning the 7,3,2,4 thing. I know the order will not be sequential on the hammers, but they should still be progressively smaller chime rods. The order didn't ring right with me, (but I've been wrong before)
:)

[Mike Phelan]

SB
You are right inasmuch as the order of the rods will be progressive.

What TT was saying (I think) was that the chord used for striking the hour was 7324. As they are struck simultaneously, I suppose 2347 is the same thing.

Maybe TT could confirm?

The modern Kieninger triple chime movement I have in front of me uses 468 (D E G) for the hour strike. Curiously, the 7 and 8 rods are the same length and the 8 rod is thinner than the rest (and the rods and block are brand new):?|

[chimeclockfan]

I can explain that. The thinner rods's probably the result of cheaper manufacturing. OR it's to save room in the clock, so that the chime rods wouldn't be too long, I guess.

[harold bain]

Mike, modern grandfather movements (of which this is one) for the most part, have a separate 4 rods on the other side of the chime block for the hour strike. Your Kienninger is one of the cheaper modern clocks that uses the same rods for both. Mantel clocks, because of lack of room, use the same rods as the quarter chime.

[Mike Phelan]

CCF
I think it must be because of the length, in this case; the difference in cost for the thickness would not even make the bean-counters excited!

Harold
Thanks - I was wrongly assuming it was a mantel clock! :(
Quite a few of the 1920s German box clocks use a set of rods and hammers purely for the hour strike as well.
I have seen the modern LC variety in catalogues but not handled one at all.
I got the Kieninger for next to nothing - it is a platform, sans case and needing a clean. When I get a load of round tuits I'll make a 4-glass case!
Jim deRosier managed to get me the correct dial and rod block when the manufacturers ignored my emails.