Hamilton grade 927

[collin]

Hello all,
Today I purchased a Hamilton grade 927 with what appears to be a conversion dial for open face cases- The sub-seconds dial at 3 o'clock position. The dial is marked Hamilton, movement serial# 295829, 17 jewels adjusted single roller. Was the dial made by Hamilton or is it an aftermarket dial? And, how common are the 927 movements? Doesn't appear to have been a tremendous number made. I'd post a picture, but I'm away from home for the weekend. Thanks for the info.
collin

[terry hall]

production of 927 movements is approximately 45,781 ....

Hamilton, as well as material houses offered the conversion dials.... and there are reproductions.

Most seem to be painted metal...

Hard to say exactly what you have without at least an image... but typically require an 'in hand' inspection.

[Robert Sweet]

Your 927 movement, serial number 295829, was made in 1905, according the "Gelson Serial No. List".

Robert

[rrstd]

To add to the information Robert and Terry have provided, your movement was finished and sold in June of 1905.

Conversion dials have been seen in both porcelain and metal with many of the metal dials being later aftermarket or reproduction dials. These dials were originally made to convert hunting movements to open face configuration. This was done at a time when hunting movements were going out of vogue.

Original pocelain dials can be fairly hard to find in nice condition and are quite popular among collectors.

[terry hall]

Thanks Rhett...

Also as an addendum....

the HenryB lookup indicates a production figure of about 49,000

not sure where the other movements fall in place.

[Robert Sweet]

The 927 was only produced from 1900 to 1910.

Robert

[HenryB]

As Terry mentioned, there appears to be some questions on the production numbers.

Chapter 149 is currently conducting a review of the Hamilton Grade 927 production numbers, and sources in the Chapter 149 Private forums.

We will keep you posted

[rrstd]

Robert,

The first 927's were finished in December of 1895. I also believe production continued until around 1912.

As with many of the 18 size hunters, quantities remained in inventory for a number of years and the last ones were not sold until around 1922.

[Robert Sweet]

Hello Rhett,
Thank you very much for the correction.

My information came from the (late) Roy Ehrhardt's Hamilton Watch Co. "Production Figures with Grade and Serial Numbers- Identification and Price Guide",

I'll make a notation in my book.

Best regards,
Robert

[Don Dahlberg]

The Hamilton "official" production number for the 927 is 45,781. We have the details on production and sales by year from 1906 on, but only the total number before.

1/2/06 there were 807 on hand
produced:
1906 1104
1907 3023
1908 1065
1909 1267
1910 629
1911 1505
1912 105

40 were changed to "Thor" (Gilt letters but not gilt timmings). I do not know what this is about.

Sales continued until 1818, except one was sold in 1921.

Don

[rrstd]

Don,

A number of 926 and 927's were marked "Thor", much like the the watches marked "Union Special", "The Banner", etc... The "Thor" markings have also been seen on 16 size movements.

[Fred Hansen]

Thor marked movements I've seen have a different damaskeen pattern than what is most commonly seen on the grade they were made from.

Fred

[Robert Sweet]

From research, the Hamilton "THOR", was sold by L. Manheimer & Bros. of New York.

Robert

[HenryB]

Here is what is in the current database, with an attachment for the runs:

Currently I have 48,282 927's, with an additional 1,000 identified as 927 Banners.

The list should be reduced by 1,075 movements (481 per Townsend; and 594 for additional 927(Banners).

Revised Totals: That gives me 48,207 927s and 1,594 927 Banners.




no file

[HenryB]

file attached

[HenryB]

Try the file in word.doc format

[HenryB]

Obviously I need instructions on how to attach a file. I sincerely apologize, as I can not delete the previous two posts.

[HenryB]

I have temporarily put the file up on the database webpage as the bottom menu option. 927 grade sort

http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/pw_dbresearch.html

I will make a .pdf tomorrow and attach it in this thread.

[collin]

Thanks to all for the helpful information.
How many adjustments were performed on the 927s? 3? And, could someone recommend a link to an online Hamilton database so I may avoid troubling the board with questions of a nusiance nature?

[Robert Sweet]

Adjustment to temperature only.

Henry has an excellent serial number data base and has posted a link in his previous post.

Robert

[collin]

Thanks Robert. I need to pay closer attention.

[HenryB]

Finally - 927 listing in .pdf version

As an FYI, in another thread, I saw that this mb only takes Jpeg, gifs, and pdfs as an attachment.