Unusual Dial - and research....

[terry hall]

At the recent Southern Ohio Regional at Ft Mitchell, I had a very interesting discussion with Bernie Levine, who main interest is Illinois watches.

He is great to speak with and I always learn something... :)

But this discussion brought up a different point and a great story from Bernie.

Bernie, some years ago noticed a dial on a watch that was quite unusual... and he has a story about it acquisition and how its intended use was analyzed...

Here is an Image of the dial Bernie took some time ago. Hopefully the details will show... I was not able to crop and enlarge at the present resolution...

The dial is marked in a arc across the top "C. K. Colby"

in the center of the dial are "fractions" in rows...

The BIG question was......... whydeydoodat?

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/pictures//file-dial.jpg

[terry hall]

Bernie, of course also wondered why... and preceeded to investigate.

Here is a copy of Bernie's Letter to "The Answer Box" (this is Bernie's letter, so C/R should not apply)

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/pictures//file-answrboxp1 large.jpg

[terry hall]

Here is page two of Bernie's letter....

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/pictures//file-answrboxp2 large.jpg

[terry hall]

In a nutshell..........

By the response in the December 1989 NAWCC BULLETIN Answer Box article,

It was determined the dial was a tool for determining the speed of a train based on the mile posts...


I will turn it over to Bernie for his story of the acquisition and research on the dial...

Bernie will field the questions :cool:

Enjoy! and Thank you Bernie!

[crsides]

can't wait for the "Rest of the Story". Really neat. Thanks Terry & Bernie.

[Fred Hansen]

Thanks for starting this thread Terry!

This is an awesome dial and it was great to see Bernie this last weekend and to hear about on this one.

:thumb:

Fred

[sourland]

Cool, my Dad was a New York Central trainman from 1940 -1976. He used to do this speed calculation in his head using his watch and also had a formula for doing it counting the number or rail joints (rail is(was) 39' long.
Now I want one of these watches....

[bernie levine]

Thanks Terry very much for posting the the story of the unusual
dial for me.I further thank all for your interest about this dial.
Terry did a great job for me by posting and in hancing the material.

In all fairness, the only way I can add to his post is to relay to the
time and cercumstance of how I found it and later acquired it.

So Here Goes:

Several yours before the Anwere box article my wife and I met a nawcc
follow clock collector and his wife for a news years celebration weekend
at the French Lick Resort.
Upon arrival while walking in the local area we noticed a clock and
watch museum .After ringing the bell the owner of the museum came
across from his jewerly store. After the museum we went over to his
store and he showed us various watches with unusual decks of card dials ,
and finally he showed the unsual dial and watch under question. I wanted to by the watch with unusual dial.He didn't want to part with it.
None of us including the owner knew what the purposful use of the fractionswere for. Several months later he sold me the watch and dial.

I have a copy of the copywrite of the dial. The dial probably is a prototype and was never produced. To me it is a historical effort
made to help the locomotive engineer before the rapid use of loco-
motive speedometers...even though it was apparentely a failure.

[Hans Dahlke]

CK Colby does indeed own the patent for this dial (Patent number D23464, July 17, 1894). However, it does not cover the fractions painted on the center portion of the dial, but rather the layout of the hour numerals and minute markers surrounding the lower part of the seconds circle. Since on his dial the minute track is inside of the hour numerals circle and the second bit extends into the minute marker track he extends the minute marker track to follow below he second bit.

I am certain that dials with his patented design are quite rare. I, myself, have never seen one before.

Hans

[Hans Dahlke]

Here is the picture from Colby's patent for the previous post.

Hans

[Fred Hansen]

In Roy Ehrhardt's 1980 "Price Indicator" there are photos of another watch somewhat along the same lines as what Bernie has.

It is an 18 size Elgin with a dial marked "Rate Dial" and "Pat. Applied For". Between each of the hour numerals on this dial are markings showing the time needed to travel one mile, with speeds at 5 mph increments beween 5 and 60 mph listed between each of the hour numerals. So a similar concept, but much less detailed than Bernie's as it only shows 12 conversions and also mostly at lower speeds.

The movement of this watch is an 18 size 21 jewel Elgin marked for H.W. Copp of San Francisco, and on the dial above the words "Rate Dial" are the H.W.C. initials in monogram letters. I believe H.W. Copp was a watch inspector for the Southern Pacific RR.

Are there other watches with this dial, and was the patent ever granted for this design on the H.W. Copp watch? Any other "rate" marked dials out there?

Fred

[terry hall]

Here is the text of the Colby patent Hans mentions above...