How does the Waltham model 1857 rate?

[TimeHandedDown]

In your opinion how does the model 1857 rate among other pocket watches? I know from personal experience I love all mine and use them quite freqently. Rob

[Jon Hanson]

In your opinion how does the model 1857 rate among other pocket watches? I know from personal experience I love all mine and use them quite freqently. Rob

Early or late serial nos???

[TimeHandedDown]

Well I never thought much on it actually! The 2 I own and one that I purchased for my father for civil war reenacting are in the 240,000-550,000 and all work great! Were later 1857's better?

[Don Dahlberg]

They hold a great spot in history. They were the model T Fords of watches. They were the first large production watches that the average Joe could afford to purchase and did in huge numbers. They were the soldier's watch of the Civil War. Abe Lincoln was very proud when he received one after the Gettysburg Address. There were low end versions and high end versions as well. A version for everyone. Other watch companies came and went. The model 57 gave Waltham enough of a start to last for many, many decades.

Yes, they are a big, loud, fun watch.

Don

[4thdimension]

Hi Time.....,
Fifty-sevens have to be one of the greatest ever made! I love these because they are a basic design that is easy to work on, and can be made to work extremely well. This is impressive because the '57
was the "best shot" first product of a company that changed (rocked)the world. To me they are one of the most easily intelligible watches ever designed. 992s and 992Bs and others compete but, think how early and revolutionary the '57 was.

U.S. watches that came a little later were the one's that changed the industry but the '57 was the design that proved mass production based on interchangeable parts was the way of the future. At least, that's how I understand it.
-Cort
<(';')>

[TimeHandedDown]

The one that holds the best time for me is signed Waltham Watch Company. I'm pretty sure the only differnce between my watch and an Appleton Tracy is that the Appleton tracy uses real jewels while mine uses garnets or fake jewels. Is that correct? Rob

[4thdimension]

The one that holds the best time for me is signed Waltham Watch Company. I'm pretty sure the only differnce between my watch and an Appleton Tracy is that the Appleton tracy uses real jewels while mine uses garnets or fake jewels. Is that correct? Rob

Hmm!
Good question! I don't know, but I think "fake jewels" weren't invented yet. I believe garnets are a gems (if not jewels) but I don't recall hearing that they were ever used in watches. It seems they might have been worthy though.
-Cort
<(';')>

[beta21]

Garnets were used extensively in cheap watches instead of rubies. Since the affordable synthetic ruby wasn't invented until 1906, I believe, there was some money to be saved there. Garnets are cheaper and easier to machine than rubies but inferior in all other respects.
However, the jewels in the Waltham Watch C.o grade of the mod 57 are rubies

[4thdimension]

Garnets were used extensively in cheap watches instead of rubies. Since the affordable synthetic ruby wasn't invented until 1906, I believe, there was some money to be saved there. Garnets are cheaper and easier to machine than rubies but inferior in all other respects.
However, the jewels in the Waltham Watch Co. grade of the mod 57 are rubies

Thanks Beta21, I am sure you are correct about the garnets. I used to play at a garnet mine when I was about 7 yrs. old that was near Gladwyn, Pennsylvania. Somewhere downstairs I still have a beautiful specimen of rock, full of "industrial quality"garnets that are about twice the size of BBs. I suppose these were mostly mined for sandpaper.
-Cort
<(';')>

[Jerry Treiman]

There was a classic article in the April 1962 Bulletin by NAWCC old timer Al Kleeb. In addition to being a watch collector he was a gemologist and he analyzed the jewels in a number of European and American watches. Some very early Walthams used colorless beryl or chrysoberyl as plate jewels. Another later model ('57?) marked "Waltham Watch Co." had garnet plate jewels.

[beta21]

Jerry, this is interesting! Are there any easy clues for a non-gemologist to determine what jewels are used?

[Jon Hanson]

BEST OF THE BUNCH?

I like the nickel finished ones....................................:clap::thu mb:

[TimeHandedDown]

Ok so I should have said less precious or none precious jewls instead of "fake". Am I right from the research that my 1857 signed Waltham Watch Co. is a higher Quality watch than the average PS Bartlett or Wm Ellery? Rob

[Jon Hanson]

ATs are best!

[TimeHandedDown]

Yes I know Appleton Tracy is best but is mine a close second?

[Jon Hanson]

Yes I know Appleton Tracy is best but is mine a close second?

how close?


???

[TimeHandedDown]

Well I'm not sure what the order is do you? There are so many names signed on the 1857! Rob

[Jon Hanson]

AT grade first, Home and Ellery last.

[mikeh]

Rob,

Barry Goldberg has an explanation of the Waltham grades here (http://barrygoldberg.net/watchguide/walthamgrades.htm). However, I see that he has a Crescent St. in the Model 57 group and I don't think it belongs there. It should still serve as a decent guide though.

Jon's comment about the nickel ones is dead on. His example with the star damascening is about the best I think I've ever seen. Maybe he'll show it again. (I have a copy Jon if you want to and don't have it handy.)

Then, there are also the stem winds... :thumb:

[TimeHandedDown]

yes that helps out a great deal Thank you! Rob

[Jon Hanson]

HI MIKE, do it for the boys......

YES--do the SCAN OF THE STAR OF DAVID, as I lost it when the old computer crashed.

[mikeh]

Back by popular demand, courtesy Jon Hanson...

[TimeHandedDown]

Wow amazing! I think my Waltham Watch co. signed 1857 is around 441,000 or so but it doesn't look like that!

[StanJS]

>> Barry Goldberg has an explanation of the Waltham grades here.

Interesting and very useful.

However, the R. E. Robbins grade is not mentioned. I have a circa 1886 13J Model 1877 R. E. Robbins KW KS. It fits in at the P. S. Bartlett level.

Not criticizing...Just noting.

Cheers,
Stan

[Jon Hanson]

To be tech there are also the Watson and Robbins grades for the 1857 model, plus others for SW 57s......then there is the supposed one copy of an American grade which has not been found.

[TimeHandedDown]

what year did production stop for the 1857? Was it when the 1877 was introduced? Rob

[Jon Hanson]

last no was 1,376,501

[TimeHandedDown]

That number comes up as a model 1877 on the NAWCC info storage! Is it correct?

[Fred Hansen]

Thanks Jon and Mike for showing the nickel star pattern here! That has to be one of the most spectacular movements out there and I can only imagine how much nicer it would look in hand.

:clap:

Fred

[Grant Perry]

Wow! Nice. Thank you.

[Jon Hanson]

AND, SOME INTERESTING private labels.................