Columbus Pocket Watch Data Base

[kirxklox]

Here is my preliminary design for the Columbus Pocket Watches. Right now I have only done the ones under 20,000 serial number. There are problems with the Jewel Count and many that are listed have not been 100% checked out.

http://www.kirxklox.com/project/col_pw_db11.html

The Bells and Whistles have not been applied.

Give me a few days and I will correct some of the 'GLITCHES'!

[Nachtmotte]

Hello Sam,
excellent work!
Best regards
Tony

[kirxklox]

Is there no-one else interested in the Columbus Watch Company?

[HenryB]

Definitely interested Sam.

Looks like you got the data fields identified for your model template.

[Nachtmotte]

... Is there no-one else interested in the Columbus Watch Company?....

Maybe, they went all in Rio to celebrate....

:~( ...except us

Tony

[strd34ford]

Sam,
You can add this one to your data base if it helps ( only one I have ).
18 s, 21 j, Time King, of, # 500179.
Fred

[Kent]

Fred:

What's on the dial?

[kirxklox]

Well, Thank You.

Stick around for a while and you will be able to enter the information yourself along with the Images. Up to THREE images will be allowed along with DUPLICATE entries. This will be a User Interfaced Data Base. The only requirement is to register on "Kirx Klox Special Project".

I am not a SECRETARY. The system I have developed is for all the Horologists of the WORLD to be able to use.

When I get this DB finished, it will include the Columbus Watch Company and South Bend.

The BELLs and WHISTLEs are not completed.

I have merged my Data Base with the one provided by Ed and Kent.

Thank you,guys.

[kirxklox]

I am going to try and merge the Columbus Pocket Watches with this DB tomorrow, Feb 20, 2007.

I would like to THANK Jon Hanson for encouraging me to get started collecting Columbus Pocket Watches. He has provided many of the Watches that I have included in my Data Base.

This Data Base also includes the Columbus Collection of Paul Heffner.

[strd34ford]

Kent,
As requested:
Fred Hougham

[kirxklox]

I have placed most of my Columbus Watch Company DataBase online. The Bells and Whistles will come later. I am still working on the ability to attach Images to it. At that time I will make it User Interfaced.

Enjoy!

[Kent]

Fred:

Thanks,

[Kent]

Sam:

Is there a list of abbreviations?

[kirxklox]

There will be a complete set of Abbreviations and Instructions.

I put it up to test how well it would be received and to find some of the Glitches before I added the rest of the system.

None of you have realized yet how extensive this Programming is or what it can be used for.

But, it there is so little interest, I will just put this PROJECT on the back Burner as a FUN thing to do in my spare time.

[HenryB]

Sam:
You know I get excited when I see a new list.:o

Technically it looks awesome.
Particularly since the file appears to be in html, but still loads up fairly fast.

You get the user interface and the graphics going on the internet, and I think you will have a FIRST.

Russ's Illinois database has the serial number user interface and the graphics, but only on a cd, because of the space limitations for fast loading.

My databases (as well as Tom's Walthams, and Wayne's Elgins) have the serial number user interface on the internet, and as a result NO Graphics.


Keep us posted

[Gary Leck]

Sam, don't stop now. I may be rather new to pocket watches but I already have an interest in Columbus. Your work will be benificial (sp?).

[kirxklox]

You guys are still LIMITING its capabilities!

HINT: Why do you think I have a Field named Company?


Do you know what PROVENANCE means?

[StanJS]

Sam,

If you need encouragement, let me urge you on. I've got that Ruby you have in there and I look forward to looking it up.

Cheers,
Stan

[StanJS]

I should add that one of the great things about this site and the Chapter 149 site are the tools used to look up serial number and production information. How many times have you seen that picture of a watch online that looks like it was taken through a yard of murky water and, just by luck, the seller mentions the serial number? Bang! A quick look up in one of the databases and you can say that $40 is way too much and you're on to the next watch.

We can't have too many tools like that. So, we urge you on in your endeavor and thank you for your work, expertise, and continued efforts on the behalf of all collectors of these marvelous mechanical devices.

Cheers,
Stan

[Wayne C. Anderson]

Sam,
Great data base.

[kirxklox]

Larry, Stan: it is for you guys that make these type of projects worth it.

[Tom Huber]

Hi Sam, Here is one you can add that I got last year.

18S, 15J, Adj, nickel finish, with micro metric regulator, SN 12977.
This is a private label for J. (John) Brenner, Youngstown, Ohio.

[Jon Hanson]

Here is my preliminary design for the Columbus Pocket Watches. Right now I have only done the ones under 20,000 serial number. There are problems with the Jewel Count and many that are listed have not been 100% checked out.

http://www.kirxklox.com/project/col_pw_db11.html

The Bells and Whistles have not been applied.

Give me a few days and I will correct some of the 'GLITCHES'!

Hi,

When can we expect the serial numbers over 20,000, i.e. the American made ones?

Thank you and thanks for the assistance posting the correct password.

[kirxklox]

I have combined the Swiss and American Columbus PWs into one DB. Today I was able to correct the DB to show only the Serial Numbers.

It looks to be another 6-8 weeks to get the programming for the Comments and Images to work. At that time I will allow Users to submit their own data, images, and comments if they register.

[Jon Hanson]

add 233554 18s Nickel HC 15J adjusted

[kirxklox]

What type Regulator? MicroMetric? Private Label or what is on Mvmt?

[Jon Hanson]

What type Regulator? MicroMetric? Private Label or what is on Mvmt?

The type for the usual adjusted ones!

Dial DS, Roman

Grade: Champion!

Jon

[Jon Hanson]

Champion

drop down micro reg

Columbus Watch Co/Columbus, Ohio on BB

dial is Roman DS

[kirxklox]

Has anyone seen a Columbus LIKE This?

8 size Adjusted.

http://www.kirxklox.com/images/scan0001.jpg

http://www.kirxklox.com/images/scan0002.jpg

[Jon Hanson]

yes

[Fred Hansen]

Sam -

Are you interested in ALL Columbus serial numbers and information?

Fred

[kirxklox]

Fred: I will say one thing I am not INTERESTED in, and that is being a SECRETARY!

The programming I am working on provides for Members to directly enter information about their Watches. It does not discriminate betweeen Walthams, Columbus, Lancaster, Et Al. The primary use for it is to provide a provenanece for all Watches and the ability to identify Companies and Watches that thy made. The only problem I am having is for those Companies that did not have Serial Numbers.

I am still chuckling about the REAL Capability and Capacity of this PROGRAM!

[Jon Hanson]

1290 nickel 3/4 plate, 16s, 11J, external click, signed "Gruen's patent/Columbus Watch Co.", HC; rare dial with monogram and below "Pat. Dec 22, 1874."

JH coll'n

Jon

[Jon Hanson]

Sam

Have you noticed that many of the higher grades have ruby jewels?

Jon

[kirxklox]

I have really found the Mixture of Ruby and Sapphire Jewels to be interesting and the higher the Grade the Fewer Sapphires.

From Saunier

200. Sapphire. The color of this stone, sometimes even milky, passes through all the shades of blue. Like the ruby, there are several varieties that differ appreciably in regard to hardness. The hardness of oriental sapphire is equal to that of oriental ruby; both consist of nearly pure alumina, colored by a little oxide of iron; their chemical composition thus being the same, they only differ in regard to color. It is, then, a great mistake on the part of watchmakers to prefer spinel or balas rubies in place of the oriental sapphires.

The sapphire is more brittle than the ruby.

The other kinds of sapphire, such as water sapphires, are not true sapphires; they are soft and should never be used in horology. The density of the oriental sapphire is about 4.01, whereas that of other kinds is only 2.58.

[Jon Hanson]

Sam,

Are you recording the differences in jewel material in your database?

Jon

[Jon Hanson]

another:

18s 9153 nickel sw hc ls ruby 13J sm. checkerboard damask, mono dial, Gruen's pat., roc, blued screws, col w co spelled out, glass back.

Jon

[kirxklox]

Jon: I am trying to post all the Columbus Watches under 20000 serial number. The rest can wait until I have it fully functional.

[Jon Hanson]

Jon: I am trying to post all the Columbus Watches under 20000 serial number. The rest can wait until I have it fully functional.

Sam, the Columbus man,

Then I shall provide just the Gruen Columbuses for now.:thumb:

Jon

[kirxklox]

I have been having some extreem problems with my Data Bases. The UBB code panels have some major glitches to them and do not work properly. That is preventing me from finishing several Projects that I am working on.

I am still collecting the early Columbus Serial Numbers and directly entering them.

[mrhamilton]

Here is my preliminary design for the Columbus Pocket Watches. Right now I have only done the ones under 20,000 serial number. There are problems with the Jewel Count and many that are listed have not been 100% checked out.

http://www.kirxklox.com/project/col_pw_db11.html

The Bells and Whistles have not been applied.

Give me a few days and I will correct some of the 'GLITCHES'!

Hi Kirk I received a Columbus Watch Co. Sr#74455 size 18 15 jewels circa1886 in a Blauer invisible joint case coin silver 3 oz with a perfect dial and all around great shape.I just need it to be cleaned and can't find anybody in south florida to do the job.I love the watch any ideas on who does this type of work.Thank you MH.

[kirxklox]

Sorry: I collect Watches and rarely get them serviced. I would HATE to give you names on HEARSAY.

[Jon Hanson]

Agreed, tough to locate reasonable repair people nowadays!

Jon

[Jeff Hamilton]

My daughter just paid $250 to have her toilet snaked out. No real skill, no fancy equipment, no real warranty. Labor time about 45 minutes.

If a clock or watch repair person is not worth more than the Rotor Rooter guy then it is no wonder this trade is dieing.

What are all the collectors going to do when all the repairmen have gone out of business?

[kirxklox]

Jeff: Interesting Corollary! I took my Car in for REPAIR and GRIPED about a $55 per Hour BILL. :?|

[Jon Hanson]

Toilet snaking in Calif is $45-55! Somebody "dumped" on you!

[mrhamilton]

Thanks alot,When I get back into the swing of things.I had major surgery with some complications and pocket watches were off my mind for a little while.so when I get my NAWCC membership again and go to some meetings I hope I will find someone there to help.I appreciate everybodies help in this matter.Jay

[Jon Hanson]

Check the nawcc bulletin for repairmen as soon as you rejoin.

[Jon Hanson]

6858 15J LS nickel HC; Gruen's patent, recased GF HC ex Dow collection

[Jon Hanson]

Question:

Railway Kings: are the HC or the OF more scarce of the two in 15-17 J?

Thanks.

Jon

[M. Cross]

If a clock or watch repair person is not worth more than the Rotor Rooter guy then it is no wonder this trade is dieing.

What are all the collectors going to do when all the repairmen have gone out of business?




Humm. If forced to choose between the two, I'll put all my broken watches away and call the Roto Rooter man to fix my toilet. Not hard a decision considering the choice here. :wink:

Seriously, one is a hobby, the other....well, a necessity. Don't believe me? Just as the family!:= But your point is well taken. If the craftsmen aren't supported regardless of the craft, we'd all be in the situation of the individual who DIDN'T call the Rotor Rooter man!!:?|

HIGH regards! Mark

[Jon Hanson]

any Col RR King (diff throne) discussion?

Any non TTs?

Jon

[kirxklox]

They need to visit "The Throne Room." (http://www.web-horologists.com/flush/)

[Jon Hanson]

It is becoming tough to be serious here...................................:(

[Jeff Hess]

excellent Sam

[Jon Hanson]

11177 8 size 15J nickel

[leghorn]

Hi Sam
Always interested in a new list. I have only one to my name, and she ain't pretty, but she's mine. Serial number #330,905. I'll try to get some pictures of it posted. Right now it's all apart, getting a cleaning and lube job.

Keep up the good work.


leghorn

[Jon Hanson]

another 8s 16239 15J nickel

[Jon Hanson]

the datafile link crashed...........:bang:

[Jon Hanson]

10499 15 J nickel SW

[kirxklox]

I am going to try to have the entire Programming completed for this project by June. NO guarentee!

[Jon Hanson]

a few gilt:

13254
13274

both 11J

[Jon Hanson]

lowest I have recorded or owned is number 897, 16s, 15J, nickel finish, although I have 2 18s without serial numbers.

[Jon Hanson]

3415 18s Nickel 15J PL "S. Wiggers/Nashville, Tenn."

[Jon Hanson]

Here are a few 6s numbers for the data base:

376725 17j nickel
357672 " "
348930 15j "
347221 7j gilt

Is the chapter, Sam, Henry planning to do a serial number look up for this series also?

[kirxklox]

Jon: I doubt if there will ever be an adequate look-up data base built for the Culumbus Watch Company. There are no original documents to work from. To make a Data Base for Serial Number Look-Up it would therefore require at least 80 Thousand Unique examples to make it valid.

[Steven Mercer]

Sam

A look-up database has to start some place.

:thumb:

[HenryB]

In discussions with Sam, the Columbus manufacturing patterns and the run of serial numbers seem very dispersed and erratic, making a high amount of actual observations the key to any predictions.

[Jon Hanson]

Henry,

I did it from scratch for the US Marion book by HofAP, but the work gathering the data took decades and is still ongoing.

Jon

[Jon Hanson]

PL from the WGC:

no serial number 18s -- "H.C. Eversole/Logansport, Ind."

[kirxklox]

LegHorn: Ask Jeff on the problems and Comments Forum.

I am sorry about not answering these posts, but I am up to my eyeballs in some programming problems. I am working on the System Programs that will make this and others function correctly.

[Jeff Hamilton]

leghorn,

The reason your pictures did not show up is because of the # sign you used. Repost your pictures leaving out the # sign and it will work.

I have also changed the message board setting and you can now upload only gif, jpg and pdf files. If someone needs to upload a different type of file they will need to contact me directly.

[leghorn]

Sam,thank's for pointing me in the right direction.
Jeff, I will re-submit the photos, without the # sign. Thank's for the tip. And you can do me a favor and delete my previous posts #147,148 as they are just taking up room in this thread, thank's.


leghorn

[leghorn]

18s, 11j, L.S., O.F., Nickel finish, serial no. 330,905

I've included a close-up of the Barrel bridge. There seems to be an extra screw hole, with a sheared-off screw at the bottom. I have not attempted to remove the rest of the screw as I don't know what its original job was. It just ends in the plate below it. The hole seems to be factory made. Any comments appreciated.

leghorn

[kirxklox]

The broken screw is a Train Plate screw. Without it, when the MS Barrel plate is removed there is only two screws holding the Train plate to the Ebauche Plate. Someone probably tried to assymble the Watch with the wrong screw there. The Right hand screw on the ms bridge barrel should be the longer screw. The one left on the left side is a short screw just to the Train plate.

[leghorn]

Sam, thank's for taking the time to answer my question. This is the only Columbus I presently own.


leghorn:thumb:

[Jon Hanson]

It is funny that you mention this as just the other day I was looking through a Columbus drawer and was looking at one I have exactly as yours. Someone broke off the head of the screw, probably because they forced in an incorrect replacement. Another hole was made for another screw to hold down the BB. Too bad the repairer didn't know the trick to remove the old steel without harm to the movement.:bang:

Jon

[Jon Hanson]

Sam,

Are you working on production nos of various grades? Rare, scarce, common?

[leghorn]

Jon, I noticed that the extra screw in the B.B. are used in the movements that say" New Columbus" on them. From what pics I have looked at, on grades 7 & 8 and 203 & 204.
Refrenced from: American Pocket Watches,v.1 by R. Ehrhart

leghorn

[Jon Hanson]

how many nos to date on these Columbuses?

[Jon Hanson]

892 15J HC SW

[Jon Hanson]

7067 15J hunting style SW, nickel, Gruen patents.

[Jon Hanson]

Sam,

Will the eventual resting place of your Columbus data base be your SPECIAL PROJECTS, Web Horology, or the nawcc Chapter 149 web site?

[rml2008]

Anyone have a answer for this one?

I have a question about my Columbus size 18, 15 Jewel, Lever set, Pendent wind, Nickel movement Serial number 383,629.

From everything I have read, Columbus sold to South Bend in 1901 with there last Serial number being 383,000. South Bend Serial Numbers start with 383,501.

From the 1915 South Bend record of serial and grade numbers it does list serial numbers 383,501 384,000 as a Grade 302, Size 18, Model 1, 15 Jewels.

So what's up with my watch?

Thanks
Rick

[Jon Hanson]

Columbus nos exist over 505,000 so there is over lapping.

[Fred Hansen]

Sounds like you have a very interesting watch Rick.

I would definitely enjoy seeing a photo of it here if possible and am sure the Columbus and South Bend collectors would be very interested also and hopefully they can fill in a bit with observations of movements serial numbers near to your watch.

Fred

[rml2008]

Columbus nos exist over 505,000 so there is over lapping.

Yes... Special block of Serial numbers were used for 21 or more Jewel Columbus King, Time King and Ruby.

1894 - 500,000
1896- 501.500
1898- 503,000
1900- 504,500
1902- 506,000

But regular Serial numbers should have gone from 1 to 383,000

Thanks
Rick

I will get a few pics to post

[Jon Hanson]

you forgot the 600K run!