Brooklyn Watch Company Case

[Suzanne Carter]

Hi,
Thanks to Larry and Heather Jones for their help. I have a serial number to identify from the case, and am looking for a date. The mark reads "WARRANTED/14K/U.S. ASSAY" Above the "dogbone" mark "B.W.C.CO." I have the info. for this part. Looks like the company established a San Francisco office by 1896 which is where this watch was likely purchased. A jeweler id'd the movement as a Waltham. Did the Brooklyn Co. use Waltham movements or is this perhaps a second one?

The serial number for the case appears to be
611646 or 611046. (It is difficult to read).
I understand it is 14K gold, and I did find the company history in previous posts, but need help dating this case. It has an etched shield motif. Please see photos (http://photos.yahoo.com/suzcart2004)
and click on "watch" (obviously!) to see the shield motif on the front of the case.

Do all the Brooklyn serial nos. start with a "6"?
Thanks to the board for any help.
--Suzanne

[Suzanne Carter]

Hi,
Thanks to Larry and Heather Jones for their help. I have a serial number to identify from the case, and am looking for a date. The mark reads "WARRANTED/14K/U.S. ASSAY" Above the "dogbone" mark "B.W.C.CO." I have the info. for this part. Looks like the company established a San Francisco office by 1896 which is where this watch was likely purchased. A jeweler id'd the movement as a Waltham. Did the Brooklyn Co. use Waltham movements or is this perhaps a second one?

The serial number for the case appears to be
611646 or 611046. (It is difficult to read).
I understand it is 14K gold, and I did find the company history in previous posts, but need help dating this case. It has an etched shield motif. Please see photos (http://photos.yahoo.com/suzcart2004)
and click on "watch" (obviously!) to see the shield motif on the front of the case.

Do all the Brooklyn serial nos. start with a "6"?
Thanks to the board for any help.
--Suzanne

[Kent]

Suzanne:

Welcome to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

Only a small percentage of American watches (or Swiss watches for the North American market) were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's. Most watch companies just made movements (the "works") in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments.

Or, watches were sold by mail-order. Large outfits such as Sears, Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, or T. Eaton (in Canada), would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs. Smaller mail-order retailers would case the watches, typically in a 20-year gold filled case and offer it only that way, with the buyer not having a choice of cases.

Typically, the case serial number is stamped inside of the back. To keep the parts of cases together throughout the manufacturing process, the bezel and center ring are frequently stamped with the last 4 or 5 digits of the case serial number.

Although a lot can be learned about an American watch by knowing the movement's serial number, there seems to be very few surviving records from the watch case companies. So, other than studying the style of the case and making an educated guess as to which era it belongs, it is extremely difficult to trace the case's history. If the case still contains the movement it originally housed, an approximate date (within a year or three) can be assigned to the case. Also, there don't seem to be any surviving records from watch case companies linking case serial numbers to specific cases, their grades, sizes & etc. About the only way to find out more about the specific model case on a watch would be to go through old jewelry trade magazines and catalogs, hoping to find a picture of one that matches. The best place to do this may be the NAWCC Library & Research Center (http://www.nawcc.org/Library/library.htm).

Several late 1890s Brooklyn Watch Case Co. ads are available online. See: <span class="ev_code_brown">http://elginwatches.org/scans/misc_ads/1898/m_index.html</span>
<span class="ev_code_blue">To view, go to the </span><span class="ev_code_brown">Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page</span> <span class="ev_code_blue">at</span> <span class="ev_code_brown">elginwatches.com</span>, <span class="ev_code_blue">then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on </span>'Go'.

Good luck,

[Suzanne Carter]

Thank you for your reply. Your previous postings on the Brooklyn Co. were very helpful. This piece was identified by a jeweler as a Ball but that does not seem to be the case (no pun intended). Ball would not have used a Brooklyn case, it seems, they manufactured their own marked cases, I believe. I think a marker here may be the "stirrup" style winder (terminology?). Does anyone have the correct name for the shield motif pattern? Thanks. Since the movement is in such poor shape, the case is really all I can research for a date.
--Suzanne

[Kent]

Suzanne:

Although there are a variety of cases with the Ball name on them, I don't think that Ball actually make any of his own cases. Just like privately labeled movements, cases could also be marked with private label names.

An example of of private labeling availability is noted in the 1917 Oskamp-Nolting catalog at:
midwestcs.com/elgin/pictures/sales_catalogs/1917_Oskamp-Nolting/index.html
To view, go to the Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page at elginwatches.com, then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on 'Go'.
Page DH06, showing 12-size movements, has a case cuvette illustrated in the bottom center of the page. Its captioned, 'Dealer's Name on Caps of 25 or More 25-Year Cases and on Single 14-K Gold Cases, Without Charge'.

Although not all Ball Model cases had them, those bearing the old ref::Ball "Stirrup" Safety Bow are very recognizable.

Can you not read the serial number on the movement? That would really help.

[Suzanne Carter]

Thanks for the link, Kent. We don't have the stirrup bow.
I believe this watch was misidentified as a Ball. We have a Waltham movement with a Brooklyn case. The owner probably had it put together at the jeweler's.
The Waltham movement seems to have the Gothic script "A.W.W.Co" above block letters "WALTHAM, MASS" with more writing below but illegible. From looking at the catalogs, it seems the writing marks are somewhat random.

Does anyone know the link to the page with the Waltham serial numbers, in case I find one? I think my colleague has it somewhere...
thanks, Suzanne

[Suzanne Carter]

Found the Waltham database.
The history of these watch case makers is pretty interesting, I guess it was a field that Jewish immigrants (my background) to get a job "straight off the boat."
--Suz