Odd experience on eBay

[Oliver Mundy]

I have just lost an eBay auction within the last thirty seconds. There is nothing noteworthy about this, of course, but it happened in a rather curious way which I think will bear discussion.

An 18th-century English cylinder movement was on offer at a starting price of GBP50.00. I placed a bid with a ceiling of GBP126.00. Until the last few seconds this was the only bid, so that I was shown as the high bidder at a price of GBP50; then suddenly a bid of GBP128.00 appeared and left me standing. After the close of the sale, a check on the list of bidders revealed that the winner had gone straight to his final amount without any intervening stages at all*; in other words, he had hit upon the precise minimum amount needed to overtake my best bid, exactly as if he had had inside knowledge of what that bid was. It may have been pure coincidence, of course - I have no definite evidence to the contrary - but it seems very odd to me that the winner managed to leap straight across so wide a gap and land at the precise spot required for his purpose. My suspicion, in short, is that he may have had access to some kind of software which probed into the secret bid amounts and automatically overtopped the last of them.

This particular sale is over and done with, and there is no point in whining about it; but I should be interested to know if anyone else has had an experience of the same kind, or knows of or suspects the existence of such a (surely most questionable) facility.

*There was admittedly a third bid of GBP81.10 by a third party, but it was recorded at the very same second as the final bid, so that the winner could not have known of it.

The Watch Cabinet (http://www.horologia.co.uk)

[Oliver Mundy]

I have just lost an eBay auction within the last thirty seconds. There is nothing noteworthy about this, of course, but it happened in a rather curious way which I think will bear discussion.

An 18th-century English cylinder movement was on offer at a starting price of GBP50.00. I placed a bid with a ceiling of GBP126.00. Until the last few seconds this was the only bid, so that I was shown as the high bidder at a price of GBP50; then suddenly a bid of GBP128.00 appeared and left me standing. After the close of the sale, a check on the list of bidders revealed that the winner had gone straight to his final amount without any intervening stages at all*; in other words, he had hit upon the precise minimum amount needed to overtake my best bid, exactly as if he had had inside knowledge of what that bid was. It may have been pure coincidence, of course - I have no definite evidence to the contrary - but it seems very odd to me that the winner managed to leap straight across so wide a gap and land at the precise spot required for his purpose. My suspicion, in short, is that he may have had access to some kind of software which probed into the secret bid amounts and automatically overtopped the last of them.

This particular sale is over and done with, and there is no point in whining about it; but I should be interested to know if anyone else has had an experience of the same kind, or knows of or suspects the existence of such a (surely most questionable) facility.

*There was admittedly a third bid of GBP81.10 by a third party, but it was recorded at the very same second as the final bid, so that the winner could not have known of it.

The Watch Cabinet (http://www.horologia.co.uk)

[michael h schneider]

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought that's the way proxy bidding is supposed to work.

If the other person put in a proxy bid with a maximum of 128 or more, and your maximum is 126, the other guy wins. It doesn't matter if his max is 128 or 50,000 - he's supposed to win by just one bid increment over your max.

Assume he put in a proxy with a max of 50,000. If you had bid a max of 150, he'd have won at 152. If you'd bid a max of 75, he'd have won at 77. If you'd bid a max of 49,998 you'd probably be really glad he'd won at 50,000.

Am I confused as usual?

Mike Schneiderp

[John F]

Maybe I've been laboring under a misimpression (wouldn't be the first time!), but I've always understood that a bid higher than a previous bidder's maximum will only go the minimum amount needed to exceed the previous bid. That is, the person who outbid you might have only bid GBP128 (which would be very weird indeed), or they might have bid a larger amount (say GBP150). In either case, it would only show GBP128 - the minimum needed to exceed the GBP126 bid.

Am I wrong?

[Edited to add: "Dang I type slow!"]

[Tom McIntyre]

The only time you know what the high bidder's actual bid was is when it is less than a full bid increment above the back bid.

If you want to see this phenomenon in action, you can look at the Newark watch that sold yesterday. The top bid was $1200 and the back bid was $1177.

Is the bid increment on a 126 GBP bid 2 GBP? If so then the above explanations are exactly correct.

Tom McIntyre
Waiting...
Tommy the JOAT's Web (http://www.AWCo.org)

[John Pavlik]

Oliver,

The explainations above are correct. If you want to here something unusual I have lost 3 auctions by bidding the exact winning bid, but being the 2nd one to bid that amount... So sniping is not always the answer....... :wink:

John Pavlik

[Doug Campbell]

Hi Tom;

I do a lot of selling on Ebay, and as yet have not figured out how Ebay determines what the bid increments will be. In regard to the final bid being just GBP 2.00 over your max bid; there is sniperware software out there. I have suspicions that some of it can accomplish exactly what you experienced, but I'm not positive. In any case, there are some bidders on Ebay whose sole delight seems to be beating someone out in the last seconds of an auction!

Doug

[Tom McIntyre]

The eBay bid increments are fixed amounts:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Bid Increments

The bid increment is the amount by which a bid will be raised each time the current bid is outdone. It is predetermined based on the current high bid.

Here is how increments are determined:

Current Price Bid Increment
$ 0.01 - $ 0.99 $ 0.05
$ 1.00 - $ 4.99 $ 0.25
$ 5.00 - $ 24.99 $ 0.50
$ 25.00 - $ 99.99 $ 1.00
$ 100.00 - $ 249.99 $ 2.50
$ 250.00 - $ 499.99 $ 5.00
$ 500.00 - $ 999.99 $ 10.00
$1000.00 - $2499.99 $ 25.00
$2500.00 - $4999.99 $ 50.00
$5000.00 and up $100.00
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Each eBay site has its own set of rules in the local currency. If you log onto the site and ask for help then search for "bid increment" you will find it.

Tom McIntyre
Waiting...
Tommy the JOAT's Web (http://www.AWCo.org)

[Oliver Mundy]

I must apologise; I was not thinking clearly (it was too late at night), and perhaps I was too willing to think I had a grievance against somebody. Mike Schneider and John F have surely settled the matter. Thank you, gentlemen.

The Watch Cabinet (http://www.horologia.co.uk)

[wally waltham]

But Hey!!!-- let's beat an old mainspring.
If you really want an "odd experience" try Zelda-- or lose an auction by a penny over your maximum bid. This happens when your maximum bid is one penny (or whatever) under the winner's bid BUT their bid is following the "Bid Increment" schedule as shown in Tom's reply.

To demonstrate: Starting Bid = $00.01
Your Max. bid = $30.99
Bidding goes to: $29.99
"Snipe", or regular bid, comes
in that is of, at least, $1.01.


You have just lost an auction by 0.01c.
I have wondered if some use this knowledge to manipulate auctions to their advantage. I don't have the time to figure out the logic, but I'm sure some do.
Timely Regards,
ww

[Jeff Hess]

Mike and Fusse are very correct. This is a GREAT board!

Yep, sniping is a waste of time and effort.

Put your very high bid in early and go onto other things in life.

It amazes me, as an EBAY Titanium seller, the amount of people who sit by their computers to "snipe" for an entire five minutes on one item at a certain time of day bidding in increments and then when they are beat out they cry and moan and send me hate mail! Like it was my fault! LOL. When they could have simply, on the day they saw the auction bid 20 bucks higher than they would normally bid on that item and then forget it. Come back 5 days later and see if they won! Simple! EBAY WILL protect your bid!

some have given me the excuse that they snipe becasue they "do not want others to use them" or their learned expertise, as if the only one one the planet that truly knows the value of this particular piece is them! Hogwash!

And stationary sniping is often a waste of time often anyway. As there are those who use sophisticated sniping tools to put in a HUGE bid at 20 seconds before the bidding ends anyway.

Just bid your high price and go out and take a walk or rake the leaves or something... LOL

Jeff Hess

JPH

[Ralph]

If eBay wanted to increase the selling price, they would extend the auction, some interval of time, when ever a late bid comes in, so that the auction does not end at an absolute time, but instead ends with the final bid, like a real live auction.

This would eliminate snipers for the most part and let eBay and the seller realize the maximum potential. Of course the skilled snipe hunters may suffer..... me included, an unskilled snipe hunter :smile:

Ralph

[Greg Davis]

Warning!!! Rathole alert!!!

150941
Ch.149 member #77

[John Pavlik]

Greg,

I thought that hole was filled awhile back???

My only comment on this is, Please refrain from telling ebay how they can make more money. I think they are doing fine all by themselves...unless of course your interest is the stock price... then maybe a direct email to them, would help that...

Ebay is a venue to buy and sell thru the internet. They set it up to make money. I would tend to believe it wasn't with intent to benifit a buyer or a seller as long as the item sold. Remember all fees are paid by the seller @ listing, final price fee, and now even
paypal fees. If sniping was such a determint to prices why wouldn't they ban it, or at least sell the buyer the service. $.25 a snipe... yes I am a Stock holder.

Lets start a topic on what reserves to do the price of an item...are they fair, what does it mean to you when its not met.


john Pavlik

[Jeff Hess]

I am plenty ticked off at EBAY right now. :wink:

They have instituted a "tax" (fee) for those who put a reserve on their items, of one percent.

This will do several things in my estimation. It will boost their profitibility HUGELY this quarter. If you are a stock holder you will do very well... for now...

But these efforts will turn it into a "virtual store" rather than an auction venue. This is what Sothebys.com did at one point as well...that is..make you start your auction with the reserve, thus taking the fun, excitment and unknown factor out of the bidding game..(This is what ultimately, in my opinoin brought Sothebys.com down)

Psychologically, who wants to play the auction game if you already know that you can buy it anytime you want for the opening bid??

And my Ebay titanium rep tells me that they have been considering doing the "extend your auction 2 minutes if someone has bid in the last two minutes" sceneario for a couple of years.

Should be interesting. Jeff

JPH

[Greg Davis]

Well, frankly eBay started to bore me a couple of years ago. I will no longer go out of my way to win an auction. Sniping used to be fun, now it's tedious. Whereas I once stayed awake thinking of new ways to leverage eBay, now I nod off while trying to wind my way through the countless listings.

If someone beats my bid by a penny/pound/bid increment, I say good riddance. Saves me the trouble of having to complete the transaction (especially annoying when the seller only takes paper payment). And if I know anything about eBay at all, I know that anything I'm likely to bid on will show up more than once (so I don't need to lose any sleep over missing an item the first time I see it).

On the rare occasion that something unique does show up, I find that putting an overwhelming bid on it is the best way to secure it for yourself. I've seen too many items lost to last minute problems (network link problems, server problems, distractions at home, etc.) to rely on sniping for the important items. Better to follow the advice of Garrison Keiller when he said to dig deep and bid all you can, then add 10% because you know how cheap you are. :wink:

Think of it this way... that additional 10% is insurance to protect you from beating yourself up for allowing that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to escape because you were too cheap to grab it by the horns. (This, by the way, is a lesson my wife still has trouble learning... so she spends a lot of time regretting the ones that got away.)

- Greg

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Ch.149 member #77