Washington Watch Co.

[ggordon]

I just inherited my grandfather's pocket watch and I would like to find out about it. I have opened the back of the case and found the following markings: Washington Watch Co., Lafayette, Adjusted, 23 Ruby Jewels, and what I am assuming to be the serial number: 1619996. The dial has the word "ILLINOIS" written on it. The dial is plain with no sunken areas around the second hand. As you might have guessed, I am a complete novice on the subject of pocket watches and any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you.

[ggordon]

I just inherited my grandfather's pocket watch and I would like to find out about it. I have opened the back of the case and found the following markings: Washington Watch Co., Lafayette, Adjusted, 23 Ruby Jewels, and what I am assuming to be the serial number: 1619996. The dial has the word "ILLINOIS" written on it. The dial is plain with no sunken areas around the second hand. As you might have guessed, I am a complete novice on the subject of pocket watches and any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you.

[Barry G]

Hello, Mr. Gordon!

Your watch was actually made by the Illinois Watch Company of Springfield, Illinois. The "Washington Watch Company" was a fictitious company that Illinois placed on some of its watches. I believe these watches were made specifically for Montgomery Ward.

The serial number dates the watch to about 1903, and my records indicate that it is a 16 size, is adjusted to 5 positions, and is lever set [lever set means that in order to set the time you need to remove the front crystal, pull out a little sliver of metal along the edge of the dial near the 2:00 position, and then turn the winding stem to move the hands]. I believe the dial should also be marked "Washington Watch Company", which means it might have been replaced at some point.

We are not allowed to discuss values here, but suffice to say that your watch is rather rare and collectible, so take good care of it!

Regards,

Barry

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My Online Pocket Watch Collection (http://barrygoldberg.net/watches.htm)

[ggordon]

Barry,

Thank you very much for the info. The watch currently does not run. My mother told me that it needs a balance staff. I probably won't get it fixed since I don't know of any qualified watch repair shops in the area. I have also heard horror stories of unscrupulous repair shops that "borrow" the works and replace them with junk http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/eek.gif . Maybe I'm just paranoid. BTW, could you recommend a good book on old pocket watches (identification, history, etc.)?

Merry Christmas,

Greg

[Kent]

Greg:

As Barry has said, you have a very, very nice and collectable watch. Barry has authored a booklet that will get you started in learing about pocket watches for a modest cost.
http://www.knology.net/~ksinger/barry_book_sm.jpg (http://barrygoldberg.net/watchguide.htm)
Click for info.

A more involved and general collector's guide is available in most major bookstores, "Complete Price Guide to Watches, No 21," C. Shugart, T. Engle and R. Gilbert, Cooksey Shugart Publications, Cleveland, TN, 2001. A new edition is published each year and is available in February. It is also available at the National Assoc. of Watch and Clock Collectors Gift Shop (https://www.nawcc.org/giftshop/americart/books.htm).

Another book that may be of interest is "American Pocket Watches Vol. 2, Illinois Watch Co., Encyclopedia and Price Guide," William Meggers, Jr. & Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1985 (still in print - see Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com)).

Barry didn't quite explain the Washington Watch Co. This was a private label of Montgomery Ward. They would order watches of their specified quality from the Illinois Watch Co. and Illinois would mark them any Montgomery Ward (or for that matter, any other customer) desired. During the period of time that your watch was built, most watches weren't cased at the watch factories. Montgomery Ward would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs.

Should you wish to get your watch repaired, here's some thoughts about:

Choosing a Repair Person
You should:

Ask for at least three references, and their e-mail address and/or telephone numbers - then contact those people and ask about their satisfaction.

Check to see that there is some sort of guarantee.

Ask if there is a charge for getting an estimate on the repair?

When the watch repairer tells what he/she thinks is wrong, ask if its a common problem and ask exactly what the person will do to corect it.

Discuss whether the repairer thinks that it needs to be cleaned and lubicated as well. Ask whether parts are on hand or will have to be ordered. If it was a common problem, the repairer should have the part(s) on hand.

Ask how long it will take. Is it a long time because of backlog (a possible sign that the person does good work)?

Beware of a very low cost for repair or cleaning. Good watch repairers are very skilled people. Expect to pay a high rate per hour for their time. They also have an investment in parts, tools and in generally running a business.

Check out What You Need To Know About Watch Repair (http://www.midwestcs.com/elgin/help/watch_repair.html) at Wayne Schlitt's Elgin Website.

Good luck
Kent :smile:

[This message has been edited by Kent (edited 12-25-2001).]

[terry hall]

Both Kent and Barry have given excellent advice, as usual!

By all means have the watch repaired. It will give you many years of enjoyment and will certainly be a treasured heirloom. Who knows, you may be one of the newest watch collectors to be "hooked" into this hobby.

The watch should have the marked 'washington watch company' dial. The dials can be found, but it may take a while.

To piggyback on the description of the watch, yes it is of 1902-1903 vintage. It is a model 5, [sometimes called the getty model]. This watch is a sangamo grade, which was one of the highest grade watches Illinois produced in this time frame.

I hope that you enjoy this heirloom and do the research to find what a nice watch you have.

[ggordon]

I want to thank everyone who replied to my question. You have provided me with some valuable information that can't be found just anywhere. I am going to do more research on the watch and possibly have it repaired sometime in the future.


Happy Holidays to all,

Greg

[John Cote]

Greg,

I just wanted to add one thing to what was said above. It is probable that only 50 examples of your specific Washington Watch Co., Lafayette grade were ever made. If your watch were a normal "private label", forinstance, made for Joe Blow Jewelers, this fact might not be too meaningful. However, since there are quite a few collectors of Washington Watch Co. Watches it is significant in the case of your watch.

I my experience, your watch should have a double sunk glass enamal dial which says Washington Watch Company above the center hole. I have seen this watch with both Roman and Arabic numerals.

Keep this watch and look for a dial. It will be a fun quest. You have a really nice watch.

Here is a link to some photos of other Washington Watches from my website. http://www.interstatetime.com/Broke/Slide_51.htm

I am planning a feature on Washington watches on my Watch of the Month page later in 2002 and one of the watches will be a 16s 23j example like yours.



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JohnCote
President, Indiana Chapter 18 - NAWCC

http://www.interstatetime.com

[Steve Kosovich]

Since this thread is about Washington Watch,Lafayette. I thought i might as well make you guys sick too.
My friend that got me started in watch collecting some months back was in a local pawn shop and the owner said to him"you collect pocket watches don't you"? and he replied "yes" then the owner showed him a Washington watch and yes it is a Lafayette and he purchased the watch for a sum of...(now here comes the sick part)......$50.00
No its not a mistype he paid $50.00!!!!
So all of you be sick with me too and drool or whatever. Ha! We should all be so lucky!!

[ggordon]

I feel like one of those people you see on "Antiques Roadshow" who are pleasantly surprised when they find out how rare or collectible their item is. I am definitely hooked on watches after only 2 days. I just bought the "Complete Price Guide to Watches" today and I am doing my research. I found my watch listed and did a double take when I found out its potential value. (I realize that the values given are good estimates only.) Now, where do you guys recommend I start looking for an original dial? I'm a little leery of e-bay and I don't know of any watch collectors in my area. Also, I think I would like to start collecting Illinois watches and would like to get in contact with other collectors. Any help for a newbie would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Greg

[Steve Maddox]

Greg,

I don't mean to throw any cold water on your fire, but I'm not as convinced as others here that finding an appropriate dial for your watch, in good condition, is going to be as easy as some suggest.

Your movement is what's known as a "Getty model," which was designed by Fred Getty, an Illinois Watch Company engineer. These are "neat" movements, but they were made in great quantities, and in a wide variety of qualities. All are 16 size, and are either model 4 hunting case types, or model 5 open face types. Regardless of type, the dials for these models are interchangeable. They are attached to the movements by "dial feet" which are small copper pins that are made as a part of the dial. On these particular models, the feet are located behind the 24.5, 36.5, and 55.5 minute marks on the dial. If you find a loose Washington dial, and don't know what it fits, these numbers will be useful to you.

Your best bet for finding an appropriate dial may be to buy a complete Washington watch of lesser quality, and "rob" the dial from it. As others have suggested, the Washington Watch Company was a "store brand" of Montgomery Ward & Co., and while your 23 jewel Lafayette was the "top-of-the-line" model, a variety of more common and less expensive models used the same dials. These include some "Army & Navy," "Liberty Bell," "Monroe," and "Senate" varieties, all of which were produced in Getty models, but also in other Illinois models as well. Dials from other models will NOT interchange with those for Getty models.

The Getty models are among the most easily distinguished movements ever produced. They are unique in having a single exposed winding wheel, and a crescent moon shaped ratchet click. No other Illinois models have these features, so you shouldn't worry about confusing them. If while surfing eBay, for example, you happen across a "Senate" model with a nice "Washington Watch Co." dial, and the movement looks like yours, you can be absolutely certain that the dial from this watch will fit yours. The problem is going to be finding such a watch!

You certainly have a nice watch, and I wish you the best of luck in finding a nice dial! If I happen across one, I'll be sure to let you know.


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Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

[Kent]

Greg:

If you think that you might be interested in pocket watches and are interested in meeting others, its time to attend a NAWCC meeting.

Use the NAWCC Home Page link at the bottom of this page to get to our home page. From there, go to the left side menu and scroll down to "Chapters" and click on it. From the menu that opens up, choose "Chapter Links." If you can't find something there that's close to you, back up and chose "Chapter Officers." You ought to be able to find contact information of the chapter closest to you. I'm sure that they will welcome you as a guest to their next meeting.

Good luck,
Kent

[This message has been edited by Kent (edited 12-26-2001).]