1920s Ingraham Mantel Clock adjustments

[Joe_G]

Good Day - I am sincerely impressed with the knowledge of the members on this site - I am traditionally a tube radio restorer, but was recently asked by a friend to attempt to fix an Ingraham mantel clock - I could not find a picture of it anywhere, but it has one column on each side and the face has a brass center with a horizontal thumb wheel - I have followed a couple of books, have cleaned, polished, oiled the movement and it works very well for the last 6 days except it runs fast, about 30 mins a day fast and the hour gong doesnt sound until a couple of mins past the hour - my main concern is to get it to run within a minute or two every 24 hours - exactly what does the thumbwheel on the dial face do?
Many thanks and my hats off to guys that repair old clocks - and I thought old radios were tough !
Joe

[Joe_G]

Good Day - I am sincerely impressed with the knowledge of the members on this site - I am traditionally a tube radio restorer, but was recently asked by a friend to attempt to fix an Ingraham mantel clock - I could not find a picture of it anywhere, but it has one column on each side and the face has a brass center with a horizontal thumb wheel - I have followed a couple of books, have cleaned, polished, oiled the movement and it works very well for the last 6 days except it runs fast, about 30 mins a day fast and the hour gong doesnt sound until a couple of mins past the hour - my main concern is to get it to run within a minute or two every 24 hours - exactly what does the thumbwheel on the dial face do?
Many thanks and my hats off to guys that repair old clocks - and I thought old radios were tough !
Joe

[LaBounty]

Hi Joe and welcome to the NAWCC Message Board! I'll try and answer some of your questions and hopefully others will add to it (or correct me!).

The thumbwheel coming out of the front of the dial is the rate adjuster. If you look closely at the dial you should be able to make out an "F" and an "S" on either side and just above the adjuster. This indicates which direction to turn the wheel to make the clock run faster (F) or slower (S).

Unfortunately, it is common to find that this type of rate adjuster has taken some damage at some point in the past and is no longer functional. An easy solution to this problem, though not proper, is to replace the pendulum bob with one that is adjustable. Then the rate can be adjusted on the bob rather than from the front of the dial. (The proper fix is to repair the adjuster.)

If you have made rate changes and your clock won't come to time even though you are at the extreme range of the adjuster, then there is a mechanical problem.

-It could be your suspension spring has been broken and is now too short. The solution is to replace the feather (suspension spring/leader unit) and cut it to proper length.

-If your movement is worn and dirty you will experience time keeping problems due to power loss up the train. The solution here is to service/restore the movement.

-If your movement has the half-deadbeat escapement, your escape wheel teeth may be hitting the lift faces and killing the pendulum action (this will cause your clock to run fast). Reset your drops and locks to solve this problem.

Good luck with it!

[Scottie-TX]

Now the easier one. LAB does the heavy ones. For two minutes strike error I see perhaps three possibilities: 1. Hand may be upside down. Possible? 2. There may be two minutes "slop" in the hand hole and securing it on the correct side of the slop may cure but it may return to err side when adjusting setting time. You could possibly rebush the hole, tight and on center and 3. Perhaps that "J" shaped lifting wire ( It does have one, LAB?) could be bent lightly for early or late strike. Whaddya think?
Welcome to clocks. They are NOTHING like radios. I restored hollow-state radios for thirty years. I'm currently ( pun in ten did ) working on four Emerson AXs. Differences between clocks and radios ( beside the obvious ) 1. A LONG test for a radio is twelve to twenty four hours. A clock must run forever. 2. I have FAR more respect for an errant, 8 day clock spring than I EVER had for 450 Volts. 450 volts will wake you up. A mainspring will HURT you - SERIOUSLY.
Welcome to clocks and a GREAT group of helpers. Do you post at ARF?

[shutterbug]

David has covered the basics. If your thumb wheel does not have markings, the Ingraham's usually are turned clock-wise (from above, to your left) to slow them down and the other way to speed them up. Put your ear to the clock as you adjust it, and if your hear a click every now and then as you turn it it means you are maxed and it won't adjust any further. If that's the case, something bigger is the problem and you may need some professional intervention to bring the clock back into proper specs. Hopefully you can get it to reasonable time keeping by just turning the thumb screw. As for the gong, take off your minute hand and examine it where it attaches to the clock. The older ones were solid construction and not adjustable, but the newer ones have a bushing that can be forced to turn with some pressure from a screwdriver (careful - it's easy to break the hand or screw up the square). If yours is a solid hand, there is a way, but you may want to refer that to an experienced repairman. If you do decide to tackle it yourself, we can talk you through the process.

[harold bain]

Hi, Joe, welcome to the message board. The main thing to consider is that to slow down your clock, the pendulum needs to be longer. So look at the pendulum suspension, and see what you can do to lengthen it. This one is harder than most because the suspension is in the front of the clock, so you may have to take off the dial to see what is happening. The escape wheel may be skipping teeth as the verge rocks to advance the time.
Harold

[LaBounty]

Hey Joe-

I see you are in good hands with Scottie, Shutterbug, and Harold!

I completely forgot to address your late strike problem but I see Scottie covered for me as usual :smile:. Thanks Scottie! And yes, this movement has a "J" lever. A "How to" on levers can be found in past posts as well as Here. (http://www.abouttime-clockmaking.com/downloads/Levers-2.pdf)

Hope that helps!

[Joe_G]

Thank you all for the advise - I think I have
found a new passion between radios ! You guys
are impressive - I did find the problem on the
J lever and it strikes almost exactly - the
adjuster on the face didnt do a thing, but I did have an adjustable pendulum bob and that allowed me to adjust (it was running right on time when I left this morning!) - I have worked on electrical clocks that are in tube clock/radios and extremely simple compared to these types of clocks - this one is not perfect, but it does work and keeps pretty good time, but I'll let it run for a few days to make sure - I guess I will have to get a couple to learn on - oh boy, the wife is gonna love this - Instead of just telling me "Oh great, just what we need, another radio", she can tell me "Oh great, just what we need, another clock" ! Good thing I'm retiring from the Marine Corps soon - I have a feeling this hobby is gonna take alot of "time" to learn -
many thanks to all of you
Joe

[lonnyl]

I also have an old ingraham mantle clock... mine strikes at about 4 minutes past the hour....

However after close examination... The minute hand has bent over the years from the many times that it has been set by spinning the minute hand around the face.

Look close to the hub, you should be able to see if there is a bit of distortion in the minute hand.

Mine... I left it that way... I would rather have the slightly bent original hand than a replacement.

[Scottie-TX]

Have I got great GNUS for you "JG"! You'll find the learning curve for clocks MUCH steeper ( you'll learn more quickly ) than radios.
1. They made superhets, TRF's, loose couplers,
Neutrowounds, and MANY more. Except for
later superhets - they're all different. So;
2. You won't need 50,000 schematics. Nearly
all clocks operate on the same principle.
You'll learn about 3 or 4 different common
escapement types. You'll learn about 3 or 4
different striking systems.
3. You won't need ( an' your bride's gonna love
this one) you won't need a TON of replacement
parts inventory. No roomful of tubes, IF
cans, power, interstage, RF, OSC, and audio
transformers! To name a few.
4. One facet is VERY different. Often
when a radio part is unavailable the
project is over. "I don't have a part -
I can't fix it."
It's different here. You don't have a part?
Make one. Often someone here can make one
if you cannot.
I could go on. It's a long list of why clock restoration is easier than radios.