7-jewel Howard (Keystone)

[Jerry Treiman]

How much is known about this cheap Howard? Is there any hint as to how many may have been made? Shugart identifies it as an export model - does anyone know of information to support this?

[Jerry Treiman]

How much is known about this cheap Howard? Is there any hint as to how many may have been made? Shugart identifies it as an export model - does anyone know of information to support this?

[4thdimension]

Jerry, This watch does not compute with the Howard I've read about who vowed all his watches would be railroad grade. Was Edward alive when this was made? Pretty odd.
-Cort

[Jerry Treiman]

I am pretty sure Edward Howard died before this was made (otherwise it probably would have done him in). This does appear to be a fairly early Keystone-Howard movement, based on the circular pallet bridge, the serial number and the click style. I believe this 3/4-plate movement first came out in 1905, the year after E.Howard died.

[4thdimension]

That's good. At first sight this watch has a lot of "Equity" look to it but it does seem a bit nicer at second look. Might've given Elgin a run for their money had they persued it.
I'd never seen one before so thanks for posting it.
-Cort

[Kent]

Jerry

There seems to be something odd in this portion of the Keystone-Howard serial number range. In our data base of Keystone-Howard watches, we have multiple examples in every thousand from 854,391 - 859,859. Then we have the following:

866,860 - Waltham
866,925 - Waltham
866,930 - Waltham
<span class="ev_code_red">870,053</span> - 15-jewel, 3/4 plate (per J.T. - see below)
870,096 - 1<span class="ev_code_RED">5</span>-jewel, 3/4 plate
<span class="ev_code_red">870,107</span> - 15-jewel, 3/4 plate (per J.T. - see below)
870,229 - 17-jewel, 3/4 plate
870,231 - 17-jewel, 3/4 plate
870,693 - 17-jewel, 3/4 plate
870,931 - 17-jewel, 3/4 plate
889,568 - Climax U.S.A.

This is followed by 20 examples fairly well distributed from 891,281 - 896,977.

We haven't paid all that much attention to these watches, only recording serial numbers and data occasionally. Thus, our sample size isn't all that large. Be that as it may, there seems to be 30,000 gap in the serial numbers containing a band of Waltham-built Howard watches at 866,801 - 867,000 (which you probably know a lot more about) and band of <span class="ev_code_red">15-jewel and</span> 17-jewel, 3/4 plate movements at 870,001 - 871,000. Your Climax U.S.A. movement is the only other one we have listed in that gap, albeit at the tail end of it.

For those who may be interested, there seems to be smaller gaps at:
897,001 - 900,000
901,001 - 907,000
918,001 - 921,000

In between these gaps, and thereafter, we again have multiple examples in every thousand.

In rough numbers, we have about 2,500 Keystone-Howard watches in our data base. If somebody can collect another 10,000 - 15,000 they might be able to take a stab at reconstructing the serial number list like Jim Hernick and Bob Arnold did with Dueber-Hampden.

Edited to correct 870,096 and add two watches described by Jerry Treiman - see below

[Jerry Treiman]

Kent, a couple of other odd Keystone-Howards that you should add to your database are two 15-jewel nickel 3/4-plate movements that I have seen:
870,053
870,107

Both are hunting movements.

[Kent]

Thanks Jerry - When looking closer to add those two to the data base, I discovered that 870,096 was 15-jewel, not 17-jewel - I've correct my above post.

Do you have any data on other watches whose serial numbers fall into the gaps I mentioned above?

[Jerry Treiman]

No. I checked my notes and those two 15-jewel movements were the only ones I have recorded within the gaps.

[Jerry Treiman]

Kent, I notice that one of your numbers, #870231, is the same as on a movement in a 1905 Howard advertising cut. It is on a movement adjusted to temperature. Its higher-grade partner on the page is #870,262 (not on your list), which is adjusted to temperature and 3 positions. Two other movements in this same ad are Waltham-Howards. Ehrhardt reproduced this ad on p.180 in his 1974 "American Pocket Watch Identification and Price Guide, Book 2".

[Jerry Treiman]

This post just slipped down to page two, so I thought I would bring it up one last time to see if anyone has seen any other examples of this 7-jewel Howard or if they have any other information about it. I have corresponded with a number of collectors in the U.S. and overseas and not found anyone yet who has anything to add. Perhaps the Chapter 149 Mentors can comment?

[Kent]

Jerry:

I'm glad that you brought this back up. It made me realize that I didn't thank you for the information on 870,231 and 870,262. Oops, I forgot again - Thanks Jerry.

Besides being in a 1905 advertising cut, 870,231 was offered for sale on a 1997 mail-order list (from a dealer whom you probably knew in Modesto). The description indicated a 3/4 plate movement with a gold train, a double-sunk Arabic dial with blue second numbers and a "Waltham" display case.