ID of Pocket Watch-Possible Tiffany

[srscherr]

I recieved a Pocket Watch for Christmas. It came in a Tiffany Box, and the seller indicates it may be a Tiffany. ser# 88791, circa 1890, fantcy face. The case is 18ct Gold. There are no markings indicating manufacturer. The second hand is missing, but works and keeps great time
Can any one help me to identify this watch?

http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-inside.JPG


http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-Ser.jpg



http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-Ser.jpg

http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-Ser.jpg

[url="http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Ti-Face.JPG"]http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Ti-Face.JPG (http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-inside.JPG [/URL)
http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Ti-Face.JPG

Regards,

Steve

[srscherr]

I recieved a Pocket Watch for Christmas. It came in a Tiffany Box, and the seller indicates it may be a Tiffany. ser# 88791, circa 1890, fantcy face. The case is 18ct Gold. There are no markings indicating manufacturer. The second hand is missing, but works and keeps great time
Can any one help me to identify this watch?

http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-inside.JPG


http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-Ser.jpg



http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-Ser.jpg

http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-Ser.jpg

[url="http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Ti-Face.JPG"]http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Ti-Face.JPG (http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-inside.JPG [/URL)
http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Ti-Face.JPG

Regards,

Steve

[Luca]

Does it say Tiffany anywhere on the movement or dial? Case? The movement looks like a fairly common Swiss bar ebauche caliber - generally made between 1840-1885 (according to Shugart's Watch Guide). The metal face is also one you see on watches from this period. From my limited experience Tiffany usually put their name on the dial and movement and the watches were high quality. Here are 2 pics of my Tiffany movement and dial.
http://www.lucadicecco.com/watch/tiffanym.jpg
http://www.lucadicecco.com/watch/tiffanyd.jpg
It is thought that this movement was made by Tiffany in Switzerland (though it says NY). Other high end companies (like Patek) made watches for Tiffany's though. Info on Tiffany watches is not that easy to find.

Luca

[Don Dahlberg]

Tiffany did not make watches. They are jewelers. They just put their names on watches (or had the maker put Tiffany on watches). So if it is not labeled Tiffany, it is not a Tiffany.

Both of these watches are Swiss made. The first one is of low quality as shown by the low number of jewels. All Tiffany watches that I have seen at least had medium grade movements in very nice cases.

The watch with the Tiffany label appears to be 21 jewels, has a micrometer regulator and is of fine finish quality.

Don

[Luca]

Are you sure about that Don? According to Shugart "In 1874 Tiffany & Co. started a watch factory in Geneva, which lasted about 4 years (low production)." So, though the watches were made in Switzerland it sounds like it was a Tiffany product from start to finish for awhile.

Luca

[Bob Weinstein]

I trust Shugart because he is an expert in watches and wrote the book.

Bob

[srscherr]

Gentlemen,
thanks. I did not think if was a Tiffany. Still a very nice watch.

regards,

Steve

[Luca]

I've heard there are at least a few errors (or maybe omissions) in the book :smile: but other threads on this board - specifically one with input from Tom McIntyre - do suggest that there was a Tiffany factory that was later taken over or run by Patek.

Luca

[Luca]

Steve,
Yes, still a nice watch! I didn't see overall shots of the case but a pretty 18k case never hurts. And it runs? I wonder what the dial is made of?

Luca

[srscherr]

The case and the face are beautiful. There is a link showing the face.

http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Ti-Face.JPG
http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Ti-Face.JPG

and here is one for the case.

http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-case.JPG
http://www.scherr-usa.us/images/Tif-case.JPG

[Dr. Jon]

1) Mr. Scherr's watch is very unlikely to have been made or retailed by Tiffany as a private label. It is a very standard Geneva bar movement with cylinder escapement. The dial is gold. It is typical of watches from 1850 to mid 1860's in large sizes and to th 1880's in very small sizes. Tiffany was selling much more sophisticated small watches by the 1880's. By the 1880's they would not have sold anything like this.


As others have written Tiffany put their name on what they sold even when made by some one else

2) Tiffany made watches in a factory they set up in Geneva. Luca's watch was of that manufacture, although it has some Patek features.

3)Before during and after this experiment in manufacturing their own, Tiffany bought watches from other makers and sold them under their own name. They also sold many of their own made watches as private labels to other retailers.

[Jeff Hess]

DJ

We have discussed this before as you know.

I find this very interesting and one of the great mysteries of "American" watchmaking.

So many variations to wade through! Tiffany & Co New york, Tiffany & Co, Geneva. Tiffany &7 Co Makers.

If has been written many times that these "Tiffany made in the their Geneva Factory" ended around 12000 but I have seen them as high as 12800 if memory serves.

These watches bear an eerie resemblance to Pateks and indeed Antiquorum insists that Tiffany and Patek "shared a building" around this time period.

No one really seems to know.

One thing is certain... the watch shown above (the first one) is NOT Tiffany.
Jeff