Waltham ID and part needed.

[GlennB]

Hello all-
I recently purchased a Waltham that I don't know much about. It has a serial number of 5920244, and is in a silver looking case. I assume it's silver because it's slightly tarnished. The case has a crescent moon with a star on the inside of the back cover.
Click here for photo of movement(400k) (http://home.earthlink.net/~gebowley/watches/back.JPG)

The watch runs fine except for a few items.
Please excuse my terminology as I'm new to this hobby.
First the little screw that holds the toggle part that retains the crown has been snapped off in the plate. Does anyone have one of these screws they would be willing to sell me? It is a special looking screw with a long body and a shoulder for centering the toggle part. You can see the hole in the photo where the screw is missing.(please email me with the details) More importantly, do they make screw extractors that small? Should I just try drilling the screw from the opposite side so that maybe the drilling operation will unscrew the broken end?

Second problem.
The watch winds and then slips. At first I thought this was a broken mainspring, but that's fine. It looks like the problem is the engagement of the gear on the stem to the gear that meshes with the mainspring gear. I hesitate to call it a bevel gear as it does not have the same tooth profile, but it does the same job. Is there a way to adjust this? Can it be assembled incorrectly? It looks like it's assembled correctly. Does the hole that the stem mechanism rides in wear enough to allow the gears to move away from each other? Any help with this one would be GREATLY appreciated as I'm all out of ideas.

Thanks everyone for any information you can give me!
Regards,
Glenn
Willington, CT

[GlennB]

Hello all-
I recently purchased a Waltham that I don't know much about. It has a serial number of 5920244, and is in a silver looking case. I assume it's silver because it's slightly tarnished. The case has a crescent moon with a star on the inside of the back cover.
Click here for photo of movement(400k) (http://home.earthlink.net/~gebowley/watches/back.JPG)

The watch runs fine except for a few items.
Please excuse my terminology as I'm new to this hobby.
First the little screw that holds the toggle part that retains the crown has been snapped off in the plate. Does anyone have one of these screws they would be willing to sell me? It is a special looking screw with a long body and a shoulder for centering the toggle part. You can see the hole in the photo where the screw is missing.(please email me with the details) More importantly, do they make screw extractors that small? Should I just try drilling the screw from the opposite side so that maybe the drilling operation will unscrew the broken end?

Second problem.
The watch winds and then slips. At first I thought this was a broken mainspring, but that's fine. It looks like the problem is the engagement of the gear on the stem to the gear that meshes with the mainspring gear. I hesitate to call it a bevel gear as it does not have the same tooth profile, but it does the same job. Is there a way to adjust this? Can it be assembled incorrectly? It looks like it's assembled correctly. Does the hole that the stem mechanism rides in wear enough to allow the gears to move away from each other? Any help with this one would be GREATLY appreciated as I'm all out of ideas.

Thanks everyone for any information you can give me!
Regards,
Glenn
Willington, CT

[Barry G]

Well, I can't help you with your repair needs, but as for identifying the watch....

The serial number dates it to about 1892, and the Waltham Serial Number and Grade list indicates that it is a 16 size, Model #1888 [named after the first year of production], Grade no. 20, with 7 jewels.

If the case is not actually marked "Silver" [whether Sterling or Coin], I wouldn't bet on it actually being silver. There are numberous silver colored alloys, mostly nickel-based, that were used for watch cases, and many of them had slightly deceptive sounding tradenames such as "Silverine", "Silveroid", Silveride" and [my personal favorite for sheer sneakiness] "Oresilver".

Regards,

Barry

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My Online Pocket Watch Collection (http://barrygoldberg.net/watches.htm)

[GlennB]

Thanks for the information Barry.
I do think that this case is either silver or silver plated, as I have another Waltham with the "Silveroid" marked case that does not tarnish.

I was actually able to clean this case with the "dip" type silver polish, and it came out beautifully. It is now begining to re-tarnish slightly after only one day. I would think this would mean it is probably silver or silver plated.

Do you have any idea what the crescent moon with the star logo stands for? I've seen other watches with these cases on Ebay, but I don't know who the manufacturer was.

Thanks again!
Glenn

[Barry G]

The crescent and moon logo was used by the Crescent Watch Case Company. I've only seen it on gold filled cases before, personally.

Here's a good picture of the logo I am talking about that I found on Tom M's Website:

http://mcintyre.com/McIntyre/EHowardWatch/WalHowSplit/InsideBack.jpg

I still wouldn't bet the farm on the case being silver, but that's just me.

Barry

------------------
My Online Pocket Watch Collection (http://barrygoldberg.net/watches.htm)



[This message has been edited by Barry G (edited 02-11-2002).]

[jim88]

Glenn, The parts on the M88 are the the setting lever screw (your broken one) and the toggle part is the setting lever. The winding pinion meshes with the crown wheel sometimes called a bevel wheel. I find that watch companys gave different names to similarly functioning parts. Email me if you're really stuck for a setting lever screw. Did you try a drop of liquid wrench on the broken screw? They are usually pretty hard to drill. Try two sharpened needle points in the recess to try to turn the broken screw.

From my own experience, the model 88 is notorious for winding and then slipping. I doubt if it's from play between the winding pinion and the crown unless you can see that that is the problem in which case just put in new parts from a scrap movement. Of course make sure the click works properly and the winding wheel is meshing properly with the crown wheel. In your picture everything looked OK. Another possible cause for slipping is the mainspring slipping off the barrel hook or the barrel arbor. I've had several problems with the mainspring slipping off the barrel hook which was worn. I was able to use the barrel from a model 99 or 08 and the original M88 arbor to get the watch right. If you haven't orhauled the watch yet I would do that and see if it helps. Good luck, Jim.

[GlennB]

Thanks for the information Jim-
I was able to get the screw tip out of the plate last night using my smallest jewelers screwdriver. It wasn't in tight, so it turned right out (thankfully).
I have a line on a complete movement for parts, so I'll see if it pans out. I may ask you for the screw if not, thanks for the offer.

The slipping during winding does feel like it's coming from the between the winding pinion and the crown. I'm able to wind the watch without any problem by turning the screw on the gear thats directly on the mainspring arbor.
I'll see if the donor movement has any better action than this one. At least I'll have a comparison.

It was interesting that when I first looked at this watch, someone had placed the click in backwards. They also pressed the pin through the click in the other direction. I had to press the pin back to it's original position, and place the click back the correct orientation. This fixed the intital winding issue I had.

Thanks for all the information!
Regards,
Glenn