Setting roller jewels

[GandalfPC]

I will be taking my first crack at setting a roller jewel today (working on an elgin 12s that is missing it's roller jewel)

Any pros out there with a few tips?

[GandalfPC]

I will be taking my first crack at setting a roller jewel today (working on an elgin 12s that is missing it's roller jewel)

Any pros out there with a few tips?

[crsides]

I have a few extra thumbs you may borrow, if you need them. :biggrin:

Charlie

[GandalfPC]

Thanks - already have two - thinking about having one removed...

[lots of time]

if this is your first crack at it, prepare to get VERY frustrated!!

[GandalfPC]

Yes, I figured this would be a tough one. That's why I was hoping to get a few tips from the pros first :smile: Currently I am reading up and doing deep breathing exercises. Will begin my journey into the unknown this evening :smile:

[Jimw2]

I am certainly an amateur but in my experience the trick is to use the correct tweezers , I have a set that has a V on one side and a matching interlocking V on the other which holds the little buggers well.
Of course there are roller jewel setting jigs but I do not have one . Be sure and do a test fit prior to shellacking the jewel in and watch the jewel height above the roller and keep the flat edge toward the pallet . It also helps to Remember , Dont throw your tools in your fit of rage after 9 tries ! http://www.members.aol.com/irjimw3/bigthumb.jpg

Jim Wallace

[Steve Maddox]

The job will be a lot easier with the aid of a roller jewel setting tool, such as the ones shown in figures "D," "Q," and "W" in the image at the following link: http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000248.html

My personal favorite is "Q," because it has a holder for the roller table, as well as the jewel. "D" and "W" are better than nothing, but they just hold the roller jewel itself (and like the title says, those are all "obscure" tools -- there are several more common types).

For setting roller jewels, nothing I've ever found works better than the old fashioned hot-melt shellac. It seems to adhere to the smooth surfaces of roller jewels much better than anything else. In my experiences, jewels set with Super Glue (R) or any type of epoxy, tend to come loose after time.

In order to effectively use the old strings of shellac, it's necessary to first melt a portion. Just ignite the tip of a strand with a cigarette lighter, and as soon as it begins to "ball-up," quickly extinguish it. The section in the newly created "ball" will now be suitable for use, and you can apply it either by dabbing it directly to the hot roller and table, or by breaking a little chip off it, positioning it in place over the roller jewel, and heating the entire apparatus until the shellac melts.

If you run shellac out the bottom and onto the working surface of the roller jewel, you'll need to be sure to remove it. To do that, you'll probably have to scrape it off with a very sharp instrument (such as the point of a hypodermic needle, etc.). If the roller jewel has any shellac on the working surfaces, the watch will never run right (if at all).

Best of wishes, and I hope some of this helps!



------------------
Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

[GandalfPC]

Thanks a bunch Steve :smile:

I will have to do this one without the special tools, but I will be on the lookout for "Q" for the future... (I do have the clamp-like tool for indirect heating of the roller table, which I will be using of course)

I will be using the strings of shellac - very appreciative of your info, I never would have known to heat and ball it first.


P.S.: Steve, I added some info to the thread on blueing in the Tools section you might find interesting...

[This message has been edited by GandalfPC (edited 11-05-2002).]

[Greg Crockett]

I agree with Steve. However, I started to use a light tweezer to set roller jewels long ago. I got used to it and even though I now have some special tools I still use my light hook-tip tweezer. It's easy to put too much pressure and loose the jewel! For this reason, I would suggest ordering more than one jewel and use the special tools Steve pictured for us if you have them. If not, improvise and have fun.

A small amount of Rodico (sp?) is helpfull to manipulate little parts like this. After the jewel is in the roller, hold the jewel in place with a tweezer and pull off the Rodico. Then, warm it up and add a little shellac.

I use lathe cement to set roller jewels (the same stuff used in cement brasses). It appears to be the same as the strands of shellac but comes in a big stick from which I flake of the amount needed. It seems to work well and I have not had a failure.

I hope you have the right size roller jewel. Try to test it in the fork before setting it in the roller table.

I suggest taking off the hairspring befor setting the roller jewel. Then, try the balance w/new roller jewel in the watch w/out the hairspring to see if it works properly in the fork. If not, you can worm it up and bend the jewel in or out as needed until it works ok. One can't do this sort of adjustment if glue has been used. After checking the action of the roller jewel in the fork, replace the hairspring, put it in beat and relax your tension.

[Jerry Treiman]

As indicated by others, one of the biggest frustrations in having the roller jewel fly out of your tweezers, never to be seen again. If you do not have a special tool for holding the jewel, there is a trick that I used for many years. When you are ready to set the jewel it may be "picked up" by touching the tip of one of the smaller screwdrivers to your tongue or a sponge and then the flat end of the roller jewel will stick to the flat face of the screwdriver from the surface tension. Since you are not pinching the jewel it will not fly away. You can then push the jewel into place with the flat of the screwdriver.

[GandalfPC]

Thanks Greg and Jerry :smile:

As always, very helpful info from very helpful people!

[GandalfPC]

Ok, I have begun the process.

Found a matching roller table in my parts bin with the correct jewel. Considered attempting to swap roller tables, but it probably wouldn't have made my job any easier and likely would have damaged my balance durring the removal or replacement. That can be a lesson for another day - today it's roller jewel setting, come what may :smile:

So, I warmed the old roller table and removed the jewel. There was a bit of extra shellac on the jewel so I have it soaking in denatured alchol at the moment to remove the old shellac before starting out. Is this the correct thing to do? Should I use heat to clean it instead, or not clean it at all (figuring there may be extra shellac to remove after I set it?)

[GandalfPC]

That wasn't frustrating at all...

Had my nice shiny roller jewel, wet a tweezer, tried to get it into position... Hmmm, a little tough... Perhaps using a bit of Rodico. Ahhh, working much better... Still a bit difficult to get into position... So close... Ok, just give it a gentle grab in the tweezers... Yes, much better...

Should anyone find my roller jewel please let me know - when it flew from the tweezers it was heading west at high speeds - I believe it is over Chicago by now...

Oh well, back to the parts bin :smile:

[GandalfPC]

Second times the charm!

Using a bit of Rodico was of great aid :smile:

I placed the balance wheel onto a bench block with the roller table side up and the pinion on the other side through a hole in the block (so the balance wheel laid flat on the block)

Then took a small piece of Rodico about an inch long and about as thick as a pencil lead - the roller jewel happily clung to it at any angle. Gentle manipulation with the Rodico and a sharp pair of tweezers (only used the tweezers to push it around - never grabbed the jewel with it), all the while looking through my 10x loupe.

After a few minutes (ok, perhaps it was 15 minutes :smile:) I got the hang of manipulating it and was able to put it into place - then melted my shellac into place (was quite amazed to get it right the first time - just took a minute) and all was right with the world!

Can't wait to do it again - nearly as rewarding as getting my first watch ticking :smile:

Thanks again to everyone for their help!



[This message has been edited by GandalfPC (edited 11-06-2002).]

[Steve Maddox]

You'll like the whole process a lot better when you get the right tools for the job. That's one reason watchmakers have so many different kinds of tools; just about every job has some sort of related special tool.

BTW -- For those who aren't clear on the subject, roller jewel tweezers are intended for manipulating the jewels, not for holding them while the shellac is applied.

SM

[Greg Crockett]

Gandolf,

Congratulations! BTW, I think you did the right thing in not switching roller tables. Usualy it is ok for brands like Elgin, but there can be slight differences which can give trouble in the escapement.

[GandalfPC]

I am considering modifying a pair of tweezers for the next go round by filing in a small notch on each side. Do you think this will do the trick?

Where does one fine the tweezers with the interlocking V design?

[This message has been edited by GandalfPC (edited 11-06-2002).]

[Wayne C. Anderson]

What is Rodico? Any suggestions were this product is available? Thanks for any information.

[GandalfPC]

Rodico is available at slarose.com and ofrei.com as well as other watch supply websites. It is used to clean fingerprints and such from watch plates and parts (in case you have touched them durring assembly). A very handy substance to have - it looks like a 4 inch long, half inch diameter, light blue eraser and is soft and slightly sticky. It has a consistancy kind of like a rubber clay.

[xylo]

You can also get a similar if not exact product from your local Art & Drafting supply outlet. Artists, Architects & Draftsmen use it to clean their pencil drawings of smudges. It comes in a small blue-grey rectangle about 1/4" thick by 1 1/2" long & 1" wide. The last time I bought some it was under $1.00, but that was a few years ago.

[GandalfPC]

I was wondering if it was the same stuff - I used to use that when I did a bit of drafting...

It is called a kneadable eraser - I have seen them at Staples