Shugarts books

[Jeff Hess]

I hve seen many of you over the years taking jabs at and poking fun at and downright deriding Cooksey Shugarts books.

I had a long toalk with him at Basel Fair and he reiterated to me in no uncertain terms, that if you have pertinent information, learned information or solid research on a watch or watch companies or if you see inforamtion that is WRONG or outdated, let him know. He will change it.

We all remember the MI/MJ Tobias discussion on here and this info has now been changed. I have him new Rolex dating info and he changed that too. He is in this to sell books for sure. BUt he loves watches and loves his research. And much of his research comes from the grassroots level.

Feel free to call him or write him if you have info.

Jeffrey P. Hess

JPH

[Jeff Hess]

I hve seen many of you over the years taking jabs at and poking fun at and downright deriding Cooksey Shugarts books.

I had a long toalk with him at Basel Fair and he reiterated to me in no uncertain terms, that if you have pertinent information, learned information or solid research on a watch or watch companies or if you see inforamtion that is WRONG or outdated, let him know. He will change it.

We all remember the MI/MJ Tobias discussion on here and this info has now been changed. I have him new Rolex dating info and he changed that too. He is in this to sell books for sure. BUt he loves watches and loves his research. And much of his research comes from the grassroots level.

Feel free to call him or write him if you have info.

Jeffrey P. Hess

JPH

[gary G]

Jeff:
Please comment on the Basel Fair. What exactly goes on there? Reason people attend? Benefits of attending, ETC. Also, where one might find a listing of international trade shows concerning clocks and watches.

Thanks,
gary G

[JohnL]

Jeff

does Cooksey have an email address that I can use to get in touch with him.


Thanks,
John

[Jeff Hess]

To answer your two questions:

you can contact Cooksey at 423-479 4813

Basel:

It has been the main fair (show) for new watch companies to show their latest creations.

Of late, it has become a race to show or come out with some of the latest innovations and even has a HUGE booth for genius watchmakers (my term) from the ACHI (Independant watchmakers group) who make odd watches with weird or difficult complications.

Roland Murphy does his thing in his own efficient and near genius way as does Marftin Braun who has for years had a small booth where he showed (and sold) complicated watches that were conmprised of old complicated pocket watch movements and recased in modern wristwatch cases of his own design. (gasp! don't tell the guys on that other thread)

Now he has graduated to making his own lineof wristwatches!

Companies like Patek and Rolex reportedly spend 2 to 6 million dollars on their single "booths" (actually big two story buildings inside a building complete with coffee bar, min restaurant etc.

Many of the companies now pander to collectors by making unusual watches or limited editions or one of a kinds.

Very cool place for a watch nut like us.

JPH

JPH

[Kent]

It's been said years ago (old ref::Here's One Example) and its still true, its the best single watch pocket watch reference book to have.

Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[ron schneider]

remember that this book is what it says it is just a guide as to prices

doc ron

[Jeff Hess]

Doc Ron makes a very very goodpoint..

It is called a "guide".

Many of the cheaper watches I would LOVE to get those kind of prices.

And many of the expensive watches have prices that are so very cheap...

Cooksey runs a tight ship but as we have discussed before, exconomic conditions as they are, combined with the volatile "market" make it just about impossible to put a "proper price" on a collectable watch.

Jeff Hess

JPH

[Steve Kosovich]

I have also written a correction to him and it was changed,just make sure you provide documentation with your change.

Steve Kosovich

[Spike]

A curiosity from the Shugart Guide:

A. The given price of for example an OF 17J M#1883 Crescent Street in average condition is $75 (2002, p. 111).

B. “Watches…are priced…as complete watches having an original 14K gold-filled case with an original white enamel single sunk dial. The entire original movement is in good working order with no repairs needed.” (2002, p. 96).

C. The given price of the least expensive 18S gold-filled case (OF, plain, average condition) is $65 (2002, p. 44).

Insofar as A and B and C are correct, the fair market value of an OF 17J M#1883 Crescent Street movement in average condition, in good working order with no repairs needed, with the original dial, is $10 ($75-$65)!

[BrianC]

But Annie, it's only a guide. :smile:
Brian C.

[ron schneider]

annie but cs is not taking into account the component values due to the switchers switchers look at watches as so much for the movement and so much for the case to break up or break down to make money

doc ron

[Spike]

Apart from the business of breaking up or breaking down watches, CS correctly shows that when you buy a watch you are paying “so much for the movement and so much for the case.” Trouble is, in many watches like the one cited his figures show about 85% of the value in the case, 15% of the value in the movement. The question is, how good of a guide is that?

[Jon Hanson]

Annie,

I am one of the very few that does not use the CS guide (too many errors on everything); besides I have more knowledge on true "worth" and I also KNOW that it is the market that drives prices; so, one must keep up with the market. I have yet to buy one, but I will admit that Louis, the Hawk (and the BIGGEST mover & shaker in today's collectible PW market) gave me one for Christmas several years back but didn't repeat the gift-he probably was worried that I might smarten up on some of this garbage and raise my nawcc emart prices (chuckle, chuckle).

The worst thing, though, is (and always will be) the condition factor! There is no standardization for grading and if there were it would be open to intrepretation by the dealers and the switchers who simply want to ram this stuff down the collectors' throats for as much money as possible. For example, if a VF is 100. and an EF is 150. the grading will be slipped to liberalize the EF price in order to achieve the higher price.

I have always stated that these CS and other books are just a guide, so be guided by them if you wish but they are far, far from gospel! Buy what you can afford and AFFORD WHAT YOU CAN BUY; but, BY ALL MEANS DON'T GO OVERBOARD! :biggrin:

Jon

Jon Hanson, nawcc#8801
President chapter 149

[Jeff Hess]

Jon says: "Buy what you can afford and AFFORD WHAT YOU CAN BUY; but, BY ALL MEANS DON'T GO OVERBOARD!
------------

Good rules to collect by!

Yes the start system is kin dof goofy, but it does sere a purpose. It kind of lets a collector know that a watch may be special and hard to find.

Let's give our friend Cooksey (a collector himself remember, Appleton and Cheshire's I think)a break. That book is a treasure for collectors (new and old alike) and is so full of info that revising it completely each year would be just about impossible. Cooksey gave me the task of changing the prices and some of the dating info on the Rolexes a few years back and what I thought was a one hour deal turned into a two week deal. Just for the Rolexes!

Send him some verifiable info or research and he WILL make changes. Jeff.

JPH

[Jon Hanson]

To start discussion on that star BS stuff once again (it pops up about every 6-9 months)!

Then we can start something on rarity ratings! (on Easter, yet?) :rolleyes:

:biggrin: :biggrin:

Jon

Jon Hanson, nawcc#8801
President chapter 149

[BrianC]

I've always said that the price guide has a lot of good information for collectors but it is called a PRICE GUIDE, of which I happen to think is a joke. That's why I call it the joke book.
Happy Easter to all.
Brian C.