Small one inch diameter clock

[joeZ]

Recently I became involved in repairing small 30 hour clock works with balance wheels. These works come out of clocks ca 1900 to 1920
made by Ansonia and New Haven and probably others. They are 2 inches in diameter and 9/16 inch between plates. The movement
consists of the spring and its gear driving 4 more axles of combination pinion/gears . The first pinon/gear (#1) driven by the spring gear
turns on the pivots of the axle that drives the minute hand. This axle also is the means for the time adjustment. In order for an adjustment to
be made there must be slippage of #1 pinon/gear on its axle. A small coil spring mounted around the axle is supposed to provide sufficient
friction to keep #1 driving the axle to move the minute hand (I think!).

When I get one of these clock works, the first thing I do is clean it and then if other repair is to be done (spring or balance spring, etc.) I will
disassemble the works, make the repairs and polish the pinions is needed and reassemble. At this point the works usually run except the
minute hand does not move. I have struck out almost every time. I have used my 40 years of engineering experience to try to figure out a
solution--for instance, increase the tension of the spring, but to no avail. And so I'm really ready for help.

If someone has experience with this type clock works PLEASE help.

LaRosa sold this type of clock works up to a couple of years ago. They no longer do. I also need parts such as winding keys, setters, odd
size nuts and screws (something like a 1-25 ? thread) and hands including second hands. I'm thinking if I could find the manufacturer of
these works they would probably have a supply of the parts also. All of the parts listed are not what LaRosa or Time Savers has listed in
their catalog. I've tried that.

Thanks for your help.
joeZ

This post and thread was copied from the Clock Message board

[This message was edited by Phil Schilke on December 21, 2002 at 23:11.]

[joeZ]

Recently I became involved in repairing small 30 hour clock works with balance wheels. These works come out of clocks ca 1900 to 1920
made by Ansonia and New Haven and probably others. They are 2 inches in diameter and 9/16 inch between plates. The movement
consists of the spring and its gear driving 4 more axles of combination pinion/gears . The first pinon/gear (#1) driven by the spring gear
turns on the pivots of the axle that drives the minute hand. This axle also is the means for the time adjustment. In order for an adjustment to
be made there must be slippage of #1 pinon/gear on its axle. A small coil spring mounted around the axle is supposed to provide sufficient
friction to keep #1 driving the axle to move the minute hand (I think!).

When I get one of these clock works, the first thing I do is clean it and then if other repair is to be done (spring or balance spring, etc.) I will
disassemble the works, make the repairs and polish the pinions is needed and reassemble. At this point the works usually run except the
minute hand does not move. I have struck out almost every time. I have used my 40 years of engineering experience to try to figure out a
solution--for instance, increase the tension of the spring, but to no avail. And so I'm really ready for help.

If someone has experience with this type clock works PLEASE help.

LaRosa sold this type of clock works up to a couple of years ago. They no longer do. I also need parts such as winding keys, setters, odd
size nuts and screws (something like a 1-25 ? thread) and hands including second hands. I'm thinking if I could find the manufacturer of
these works they would probably have a supply of the parts also. All of the parts listed are not what LaRosa or Time Savers has listed in
their catalog. I've tried that.

Thanks for your help.
joeZ

This post and thread was copied from the Clock Message board

[This message was edited by Phil Schilke on December 21, 2002 at 23:11.]

[gre406]

joeZ..Is this the type of movement you are talking about ??

http://userweb.nni.com/gre406/nh1.jpg

I will look for an Ansonia if this is the size and type and try to see the problem..

Geo

Geo
NAWCC#78594

[joeZ]

Hi gre406,
That's the one although some of the clocks have paper dials and usually a second hand. As far as I can see, there's very little difference between the movements -- even between the New Haven or Ansonia. Most of mine are New Haven.
Looking forward to more info.
joeZ

[gre406]

joeZ...Take a real close look at the pinion on the shaft...I bet there is a small crack that is keeping the minute hand from moving...If so, it can be repaired by solder and carefully re-fitted..

Let me know if that is the problem..

http://userweb.nni.com/gre406/nh2.jpg

As for the extra parts try Merritts.com

Geo

Geo
NAWCC#78594

[Cactus50]

Hello joeZ

As you have allready figured out lack of movement in the minute hand is due to lack of friction in the clutch assembly. This is normally caused by the collet that locks the spring in place has slipped back. You will need to disassemble the movement completely. Remove the canon pinion and remove the minute shaft from the front plate. Using your staking anvil - insert the shaft into the proper size hole and drive the collet back into place. The problem here is that it is very common to find the collet has worn in the inner diameter so that it is no longer tight enough to hold - so, if this is the case you must remove the collet from the shaft and use some method to close the hole a little. I use an anvil and a flat steel - place the collet on the anvil, cover with the steel and strike the steel with a small hammer. The goal is to slightly flatten the collet thereby closing the hole - so tap lightly until you see how it goes. You probably need something on the order of .001-2 squeeze here to hold the spring in place. Good luck.

David Arnold
Austin, Texas
#0142269

[joeZ]

Hi Geo,
Thanks for the excellent photo of the problem parts. I'm doubtful of your suggestion but will pursue it. Right now the priority is getting Christmas Cards to the post office. At least my wife thinks so.
joeZ

[joeZ]

Hi David,
Thanks for your reply. I believe you may be on to something. I'm not quiet clear about the collet you are refering to. Am I right in assuming that the spring is not in compression against the back plate but that the collet is pressed on to the minute hand axle that holds the pinion, gear and minute hand sprocket so that when installed there is some play between the back collet and back plate (as much as the minute hand sprocket has play against the front plate?

This seems pretty muddily writen but its hard to write in words when the subject was meant to be explained by showing and waving the hands.

If what I wrote is correct then it puts a different light on what I was trying to accomplish. I thought the compression came from pressing of the collet against the back plate. This puts additional drag on the train.

Thanks and if you could comment I'd appreciate.
joe Zemanek
NAWCC member

[gre406]

joeZ..

Make sure the gear and pinion are tightly staked together..This is another type

http://userweb.nni.com/gre406/mg1.jpg

http://userweb.nni.com/gre406/mg2.jpg

Geo
NAWCC#78594

[Pete Riegel]

What makes this a 1 inch diameter clock? When viewed next to the quarter, it eyeballs more like 4 or 5 inches. Am I missing something?

[Cactus50]

Hello JoeZ

I think you have got the picture, the collet holds pressure on the spring. The arrangement is shown clearly in gre406 last picture. This is a very common problem with these small movements. If you would like a more recise explanation contact me directly via email. Have a great day.
David

David Arnold
Austin, Texas
#0142269

[gre406]

Pete...That would be "Roosevelt" on a "dime"..Not "Washington on a "quarter"...

The dial is about 2 inch diameter and not "1"..

You "caught" one and "missed" another..
:biggrin:

Geo
NAWCC#78594

[joeZ]

Hi Geo, David, etc.
You've all been very helpful. Geo, your reply was not at all as clear as David's. When I read David's its like the cartoon character with the light bulb over his head. I don't know how long I have struggled with this and looked at it and didn't see how the thing was supposed to work. The collet did have a crack in it as Geo sugguested. In all these clocks when I took them apart, the collet always slipped off easily -- ergo -- too big.
My next problem was what to replace the collet with since you prabably can't buy parts like that and I don't have a lathe. My solution -- I used a busing of close to the right size and voila it works!!!!!

Sorry about the title being about one inch diameter clocks. Just get in a big hurry and editing for me is hard because I know what I want it to say. I'm good at editing other's stuff. :smile:

Thanks a bunch to everyone. This has been a good experience for me and maybe for all of us.

I am still looking for manufacturers of these movements like LaRosa used to carry.

joe Zemanek

[gre406]

Good to hear "all is well" with the clock now..

As a side note let me add that the "dust collecting" hole closing punches finally have a use in this situation..

http://userweb.nni.com/gre406/hc1.jpg

They work well for this and also for closing the holes on the minute hand bushings..

Note: "Not for use on clock pivot holes" But we all knew that anyway...

:razz:

Geo
NAWCC#78594