Keli's Model 83 Crescent St.

[Kent]

Keli (kelcrow) started posting questions about a family Model 83 Crescent St. in the Private Label Model 83 thread. I've recopied some of her text here and added a link to the pictures that she sent to me:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was recently given a pocket watch as part of my grandfathers' estate when he passed away.

He put tags on all his watches and on this particular one it
says: American Waltham Crescent Street, Model 1883, 15J, miovt world,
L.S., 18s, finest full plate

#5,747,194, patent regulator & breduet hair spring, adj to temperature,
inochronism & positions swing case

It has a picture of a jockey and horse on the back done in copper. (it looks like)

Does anyone have any history to tell us about this watch or what the value might be?
Thanks- Keli </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Keli:

Welcome to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

The American Waltham Watch Co. (Waltham, MA) had its origins in the 1850's. It was the first successful company in America to manufacture watches in mass production using machinery to make identical (or at least, near identical) parts. Over the next hundred years or so of its existence, its output of jeweled watches (over 34 million) was only exceeded by one other company, the National Watch Co. at Elgin, IL. Commonly referred to as "Waltham," the company made a full line of watches ranging from modest, affordable watches to some of the finest watches made in this country. An 1884 article on the American Watch Co. (http://members.aol.com/gfrauen10/walthampage.html) is available on Greg Frauenhoff's website.

You can find out some basic facts about your Waltham watch by entering the serial number on the movement (the "works") in the field on the NAWCC Information Storage - Waltham Serial Number Data Base (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/LookupSN.asp) (don't use any commas). There is also a Glossary (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/Glossary.htm) of the terms provided by the serial number lookup. Should the date not be listed there, this Waltham Production Date (http://www.oldwatch.com/walthamdate.html) chart is a means for determining the approximate production date.

Having done so, I can see that you have a very nice watch, built in about 1893.

Catalog Information for the watch movement can be seen online in scans from the:

1887 (Updated to 1889) S.F. Myers Catalog (where you'll see that it was at the top of Waltham's line of 18-size watches) at:
<span class="ev_code_brown">www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1887_S_F_Myers/m_index.html</span>

You can also see it described in an 1893 ad showing it to be at the top of the line of watches that Waltham offered for railroad time service at:
<span class="ev_code_brown">www.elginwatches.org/scans/non_elgin_ads/1893/m_02_waltham_model_83_RR.html</span>

<span class="ev_code_blue">To view, go to the </span><span class="ev_code_brown">Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page</span> <span class="ev_code_blue">at</span> <span class="ev_code_brown">elginwatches.com</span>, <span class="ev_code_blue">then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on </span>'Go'.

To learn more about railroad time service, time inspection and railroad standard watches, see ”Just What Is A Railroad Watch?” On the Pocket Horology, NAWCC Chapter 174 Website (http://www.pockethorology.org/).

Only a small percentage of American watches (or Swiss watches for the North American market) were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's (even then, uncased movements were furnished to the trade at least until the 1960's). Most watch companies just made movements (the "works") in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments.

Or, watches were sold by mail-order. Large outfits such as Sears, Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, or T. Eaton (in Canada), would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs. Smaller mail-order retailers would case the watches, typically in a 20-year gold filled case and offer it only that way, with the buyer not having a choice of cases.

If you can tell us about (or post a picture of) the trade marks or names stamped into the inside back of the case, we may be able to tell you a little about the case material and its manufacturer.

As it says in the upper left-hand corner of this page, we don’t provide timepiece values. However, once you determine what quality the case is, you'll know the proper description of your watch. By using a google search you should be able to find similar watches offered by internet dealers, or on eBay, and see what they are selling for. Alternately, check the value in the "Complete Price Guide to Watches, No 25," C. Shugart, T. Engle and R. Gilbert, Cooksey Shugart Publications, Cleveland, TN, 2005. A new edition comes out each year in February. The book is available at libraries, most major bookstores and online at the NAWCC Gift Shop (http://www.nawcc.org/giftshop/americart/bk_watch.htm). The No 24 (the 2004) edition is shown, but contact them and ask for No. 25.

Good luck,

[Kent]

Keli (kelcrow) started posting questions about a family Model 83 Crescent St. in the Private Label Model 83 thread. I've recopied some of her text here and added a link to the pictures that she sent to me:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was recently given a pocket watch as part of my grandfathers' estate when he passed away.

He put tags on all his watches and on this particular one it
says: American Waltham Crescent Street, Model 1883, 15J, miovt world,
L.S., 18s, finest full plate

#5,747,194, patent regulator & breduet hair spring, adj to temperature,
inochronism & positions swing case

It has a picture of a jockey and horse on the back done in copper. (it looks like)

Does anyone have any history to tell us about this watch or what the value might be?
Thanks- Keli </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Keli:

Welcome to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

The American Waltham Watch Co. (Waltham, MA) had its origins in the 1850's. It was the first successful company in America to manufacture watches in mass production using machinery to make identical (or at least, near identical) parts. Over the next hundred years or so of its existence, its output of jeweled watches (over 34 million) was only exceeded by one other company, the National Watch Co. at Elgin, IL. Commonly referred to as "Waltham," the company made a full line of watches ranging from modest, affordable watches to some of the finest watches made in this country. An 1884 article on the American Watch Co. (http://members.aol.com/gfrauen10/walthampage.html) is available on Greg Frauenhoff's website.

You can find out some basic facts about your Waltham watch by entering the serial number on the movement (the "works") in the field on the NAWCC Information Storage - Waltham Serial Number Data Base (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/LookupSN.asp) (don't use any commas). There is also a Glossary (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/Glossary.htm) of the terms provided by the serial number lookup. Should the date not be listed there, this Waltham Production Date (http://www.oldwatch.com/walthamdate.html) chart is a means for determining the approximate production date.

Having done so, I can see that you have a very nice watch, built in about 1893.

Catalog Information for the watch movement can be seen online in scans from the:

1887 (Updated to 1889) S.F. Myers Catalog (where you'll see that it was at the top of Waltham's line of 18-size watches) at:
<span class="ev_code_brown">www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1887_S_F_Myers/m_index.html</span>

You can also see it described in an 1893 ad showing it to be at the top of the line of watches that Waltham offered for railroad time service at:
<span class="ev_code_brown">www.elginwatches.org/scans/non_elgin_ads/1893/m_02_waltham_model_83_RR.html</span>

<span class="ev_code_blue">To view, go to the </span><span class="ev_code_brown">Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page</span> <span class="ev_code_blue">at</span> <span class="ev_code_brown">elginwatches.com</span>, <span class="ev_code_blue">then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on </span>'Go'.

To learn more about railroad time service, time inspection and railroad standard watches, see ”Just What Is A Railroad Watch?” On the Pocket Horology, NAWCC Chapter 174 Website (http://www.pockethorology.org/).

Only a small percentage of American watches (or Swiss watches for the North American market) were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's (even then, uncased movements were furnished to the trade at least until the 1960's). Most watch companies just made movements (the "works") in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments.

Or, watches were sold by mail-order. Large outfits such as Sears, Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, or T. Eaton (in Canada), would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs. Smaller mail-order retailers would case the watches, typically in a 20-year gold filled case and offer it only that way, with the buyer not having a choice of cases.

If you can tell us about (or post a picture of) the trade marks or names stamped into the inside back of the case, we may be able to tell you a little about the case material and its manufacturer.

As it says in the upper left-hand corner of this page, we don’t provide timepiece values. However, once you determine what quality the case is, you'll know the proper description of your watch. By using a google search you should be able to find similar watches offered by internet dealers, or on eBay, and see what they are selling for. Alternately, check the value in the "Complete Price Guide to Watches, No 25," C. Shugart, T. Engle and R. Gilbert, Cooksey Shugart Publications, Cleveland, TN, 2005. A new edition comes out each year in February. The book is available at libraries, most major bookstores and online at the NAWCC Gift Shop (http://www.nawcc.org/giftshop/americart/bk_watch.htm). The No 24 (the 2004) edition is shown, but contact them and ask for No. 25.

Good luck,

[Kent]

Keli got her watch open and took some Pictures That Are Now Posted (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/walt845/18S_15J_HC_5747194_Keli.jpg). In an email accompanying the pictures, she said:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Is this a watch that is rare or would it be considered one of those that was mass produced during that time? I guess my research starts here. I will visit the websites you gave me but the only problem is I really don't know what I am reading. I guess I will ask questions as I go along. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This particular watch isn't rare, although I don't have an accurate production quantity, its known that thousands and thousands of model `83 Crescent St. watches were made and have survived. Also, as a 15-jewel watch, its looked down upon by a large number of collectors who only want to acquire 21-jewel watches or those with more jewels than that. These two factors tend to depress the value of the watch as a collectable. However, that doesn't change the fact that it was the highest grade 18-size watch that Waltham made at that time. As was seen in the S.F. Myers catalog sheet, The Crescent St. grade was almost twice the price, or more, than any other watch shown, except the nickel Appleton, Tracy & Co. grade, which wasn't even 70% of the cost of the Crescent St. grade.

Here's some explanation of terms to get you started:

Size
Like many of our other systems of measurement, American pocket watch movement and case sizes can be traced back to an English system, one known as the Lancashire gage. In this system, the size is based upon the diameter of the watch plate to which the dial is fastened, known as the pillar plate. 0-size has a pillar plate diameter of 1-5/30" (yeah, right!). Nominal sizes then increment by 1/30" for each count. Although there are exceptions, most pocket watches are sized to even numbers with the most common being 0, 6, 12, 16 and 18. These account for the vast majority of American-made watches. A 6-size watch has a pillar plate diameter of 1-5/30" plus 6/30", or 1-11/30". The diameter of a 16-size movement's pillar plate is 1-21/30", and an 18-size watch is one whose pillar plate diameter is 1-23/30" ( 1-5/30" plus 16/30" and 18/30" respectively). For sizes below 0-size (written x/0), the 1/30” is subtracted from the 1-5/30. Thus a 6/0-size watch has a pillar plate diameter of 29/30”. This is right up there with 12 inches to a foot, 16 ounces to a pound and 32 ounces to a quart. The same people have brought us the term hundredweight, which isn’t a hundred of anything but it is equal to 8 stone. Since a stone is equal to 14 pounds, a hundredweight is equal to 112 pounds.

Also see What Size Is My Watch? (http://barrygoldberg.net/watchguide/size.htm) on Barry Goldberg’s website.

Jewels
The jewels in a watch were, for the most part, the bearings. These were industrial jewels, not at all gem quality. They provided hard, low-friction, wear-resistant surfaces. The basic number of jewels in a “jeweled” watch is 7, after which, jewels were usually added in pairs (one exception is the upper center jewel in 16-jewel watches). From the 1860’s through the 1880’s, watches were said to be “Fully Jeweled” if they contained 15 jewels. Moving upward from 15-jewels, American watch companies almost always added the 16th jewel as the Upper Center Jewel (http://photos15.flickr.com/20386597_b1d130c3e7_o.jpg) (an exception doesn't come to mind) and the 17th jewel as the lower center jewel (this generally isn't considered necessary and many high grade European watch makers didn't bother with it). Adding additional jewels, up to 19, usually produced a demonstrable improvement in timekeeping accuracy. In adding 2 more jewels to bring a watch up to 21, the increase in accuracy was more theoretical than practical. Any number of jewels over 21 usually failed to gain any additional timekeeping improvement. It should be noted that additional labor to properly adjust a watch did more to improve accuracy than adding jewels above 16 or 19. In fact, the Elgin grade No. 240 B.W. Raymond, a 19-jewel, 18-size, Veritas model (three-quarter plate) movement, is considered by quite a few people to be one of the best timekeepers ever made.

There is an excellent discussion on watch jewels on Wayne Schlitt's Elgin Website at:
<span class="ev_code_brown">www.elginwatches.org/help/watch_jewels.html</span>
<span class="ev_code_blue">To view, go to the </span><span class="ev_code_brown">Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page</span> <span class="ev_code_blue">at</span> <span class="ev_code_brown">elginwatches.com</span>, <span class="ev_code_blue">then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on </span>'Go'.

Hunting-Case
A hunting-case movement is one that is designed to fit into a case that has a protective cover over the crystal (glass). The cover is released by pressing down on the crown (the correct name for the winding knob). The movement is designed such that the winding stem is at the 3 o'clock position and that the seconds dial is at the 6 o'clock position. It's made this way to facilitate the proper means of holding the hunting-case (HC) watch when opening it.

Sidewinder
When a movement designed to go in a hunting-case (one with a metal lid or cover over the crystal) is placed in an open-face case, the winding stem ends up at the 3 o’clock position. Such combinations are frequently referred to as a “Sidewinder.” As hunting-case watches fell out of favor during the early part of the twentieth century, hunting-case movements, some of them of quite high quality, were offered to dealers at substantial discounts to clear them out of inventory. Dealers placed these in open-face cases in order to sell the high grade watches at attractive prices. Many other sidewinders were created during the depression, and much later during the 1980’s, when gold hunting-cases were scrapped out for the value of the gold, the movements being recased into inexpensive cases. Still other sidewinders were, and continue to be, created by watch collectors and dealers who stripped lower grade movements out of hunting-cases in order to use the cases to house higher grade movements.

Adjustment
Movements that are marked to be "Adjusted" may have a variety, or combination, of features. One has to read the factory specification for any given movement grade to discover just what level of adjustment is being claimed. High grade watches built after 1905-1908 may be marked with specific adjustments. This is especially true for watches intended for use in railroad time service. The purpose of all of these features is to keep the balance wheel (the wheel that spins back and forth rapidly), as nearly as possible, oscillating at a consistent rate. The consistency of the rate of oscillation of the balance (wheel) is the timekeeping quality of the watch.

Temperature Compensated Balance (wheel)
A balance wheel that is temperature compensated has the rim made of two dissimilar metals. There are usually two arms (spokes) from the hub supporting the rim and there is a slot cut in the rim just past each arm. This forms two rim segments having one end supported by the arm and the far end free to move. As the temperature increases, lessening the power of the hairspring (the spring coiled inside of the balance wheel), the far ends of the rim segments deflect inward. As temperature decreases, the segment ends relax, moving outward, as the hairspring strength increases. The action is much like an inexpensive thermostat in the home. This movement of the rim segments changes the moment of inertia of the balance wheel, compensating for the alteration in the hairspring strength.

Adjustment to Temperature
This is sometimes referred to as adjustment to heat and cold. It requires a temperature compensated balance. The balance has pairs of screws (180 degrees apart) set into the rim. These give the balance mass, which sets the basic rate at which it oscillates. One pair may be the meantime screws, used to bring the rate deviation to minimum (with the regulator in its center position) after all of the other adjustments have been made. The locations of most of the pairs of screws (each pair is 180 degrees apart) on the balance wheel rim are chosen to provide the best match of change in moment of inertia to change in hairspring strength (there are extra pairs of holes so that the screws may be moved to the best possible positions). The object is to keep the balance wheel oscillating at the same rate over the specified temperature range.

Adjustment to Position
The next level is adjustment to position. This is adjustment to maintain the same rate of balance wheel oscillation, regardless of which of the specified positions the watch is in. There are a total of six positions. Unfortunately, the number or the positions to which the watch is adjusted isn't specified for most watches built prior to 1905-1908. Typically, unspecified adjustment to position means adjustment to 3 positions, but there are a number of instances in which it means 5 positions. Adjustment to 3 positions most likely means stem up, stem at the 3 o'clock position and stem at the 9 o'clock position. Watches adjusted to 5 positions include the dial up and dial down positions. The 6th position is stem down at the 6 o'clock position. These positions are illustrated in a 1924 Illinois Ad (http://photos5.flickr.com/9939069_a6655c13df_o.jpg)'. Since temperature variation is usually greater than positional variation, watches marked to be adjusted to position include adjustment to temperature. A high grade Swiss watch marked to be adjusted usually implies adjustment to all positions. "All" may be 5 or 6 positions.

Some watches are marked “8 Adjustments.” Depending upon the manufacturer’s specification at the moment that the watch was made, this can mean adjustment to temperature, isochronism (see below) and 6 positions. Or, it may mean adjustment to heat, cold, isochronism and 5 positions. To clear up the ambiguity, in the early 1950’s, Elgin marked its top (and only) railroad pocket watch “9 Adjustments.”

Unless a watch is specifically marked as to the number of positions to which its adjusted, the only way to know that number would be to identify the grade and find the manufacturer's description of the position adjustment for that grade.

Adjustment to Isochronism
Then, there is adjustment to isochronism. This is accomplished by the design and adjustment of the hairspring (the spring coiled inside of the balance wheel). The power output of the mainspring (the spring that is wound when winding a watch) tends to decrease as it unwinds over the course of the day. This causes the balance wheel to rotate through a greater rotational angle when the mainspring is just wound and a lesser angle when the mainspring needs winding. A watch adjusted to isochronism oscillates the balance wheel at the same rate throughout the specified length of run between windings of the mainspring, regardless of how far in each direction the balance wheel rotates. This length of run is typically 30 hours for earlier watches and 42 hours for post World War I watches of better quality. However, mainsprings whose power output were nearly constant over the first 20 hours after a full winding were supplied in higher grade watches starting in the late 1920's. The need for adjustment to isochronism lessened with the application of these mainsprings.

Regulator
The regulator on a watch is a device used to set the rate of oscillation of the balance wheel. The balance wheel, which is a watch's timekeeper, owes its oscillations to the action of the hairspring. The hairspring is located on the balance wheel staff. The regulator functions by having two pins that straddle the end of the hairspring. As the regulator is slightly rotated, the two pins slide along the hairspring by a short amount. The pins thus change the effective length of the hairspring, changing the rate of oscillation. Watches of lesser quality have a simple pointer, whose tip extends over a scale. Finer watches require the ability to accurately move the regulator a precise amount. The different watch companies used precision regulators whose designs were patented, hence the term, "Patent Regulator". The generic term for these precision regulators is "micrometric regulator" or “micrometer regulator.” Typically, a large change of the regulator adjusting device causes a small change in the positions of the regulator pins, resulting in a small change of balance wheel oscillation rate. An example would be that one full turn of a regulation adjusting screw causes a change of 10 seconds per day.

Hairspring
The hairspring is one of the most important parts of a watch. It provides the force that oscillates the balance wheel and the rate of oscillation of the balance wheel is the timekeeping rate of the watch.

Breguet Hairspring
Ideally, the coils of the hairspring expand and contract concentrically. The closer that a hairspring approaches this ideal, the more stable the balance wheel oscillation is. If the outer end of the hairspring were simply pinned in place, the outer coils of the hairspring would distort as the spring expands and contracts. Louis Breguet developed a hairspring design in which the outer end of the hairspring bends upward, out of the plane of the coils of the spring, and then passes across the coils before being terminated. This allows the hairspring to come very close to the ideal concentric movement of the coils.

Double-Sunk Dial
Double-sunk dials are considered to be the highest quality dials and were furnished on most of the higher grade watches. This is a dial whose entire center section has been cut out and replaced by an enameled disk at a lower level. This assembly then has an appropriate hole cut out for a seconds dial that is soldered in place at a still lower level.

That should keep you busy for awhile. Please let us know what other questions you come up with.

[John F]

This looks to be a pretty good example of an 1883 - the damaskeening pattern is quite nice, and with a clittle cleaning the double sunk dial is also attractive.

[Steven Mercer]

Keli

A very nice looking watch. In fact, I have the same damaskeening pattern on one of my Crescent St.. See the photo at the bottom of my reply.

I would like to add to some of the information Kent provided:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This particular watch isn't rare, although I don't have an accurate production quantity, its known that thousands and thousands of model `83 Crescent St. watches were made and have survived </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There were 71 different runs on Crescent St.’s produced, with a total of approximately 40,820 watches. Not all of the watches in these runs are Crescent St’s. So no, Crescent St's. are not a rare watch, but compared to some of the RR grade watches like Hamilton 992's Crescent St's are not as numerous.

[QUOTE a 15-jewel watch [/QUOTE]

Yes, yours is a 15 jewel watch. Not all Crescent St’s are 15 jewels though. There are many produced as 17 Jewels. It is almost undeterminable as to how many were produced as 17 Jewels. During the 1890’s Waltham up jeweled many watches from 15 jewels to 17 jewels to compete with other watch companies that were producing 17 jewel watches.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It was the highest grade 18-size watch that Waltham made at that time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it was. I do believe that at the time Waltham was setting the industry standard. (I could get some disagreements on this statement)

On the following point I really have to disagree with Kent:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also, as a 15-jewel watch, its looked down upon by a large number of collectors who only want to acquire 21-jewel watches or those with more jewels than that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I personally have not met any collectors that look down on Crescent St. watches. There are many collectors that only want RR grade 21 jewel watches and will not collect anything else. I have met many collectors that have some very rare watches and right along side those rare watches are some of the most beautiful damaskeened Model 83 Crescent St’s.

Also, as I stated above, not all the watches produced in those runs were Crescent St.’s. There are some of the most sought out watches in those runs. For example, the names on those watches are Canadian Pacific Railway, Canadian Railway Time Service, Santa Fe Route, Dominion Railway, Special Rail Road King, Victoria Chronometer. Some of these watches command a higher price than the 21 jewel watches Kent mentioned, and they are Crescent St. grade watches.

I think Kent should be ashamed of himself to make a blanket statement like:

[QUOTE]its looked down upon by a large number of collectors who only want to acquire 21-jewel watches or those with more jewels than that./QUOTE]

Kent is an RR collector and there is nothing wrong with that. That is what he is into. But Kent, how many 15 or 17 jewel Crescent St’s do you have in your collection?

http://www.kirxklox.com/images/product/Waltham18s06018053m.jpg (http://www.kirxklox.com/product.php3?id1=513)

[Kent]

*sigh* :redface:
I have to admit that Steve is right and that perhaps the phrase "... looked down upon ..." was a poor choice of words. Maybe what I should have said was "Also, as a 15-jewel watch, its ignored by a large number of collectors who only want to acquire 21-jewel watches or those with more jewels than that."

But then, how else can one explain the fact that Hamilton's 992, a 21-jewel watch with a total production of over 500,000 (I'm not sure if that's counting the Elinvar version or not), commands a much higher price nowadays? These were well-built, dependable watches, but I don't think that they were finished as finely as the model `83 Crescent St., that was the function of the grade No. 990.

As it happens, I don't own any model `83 Crescent St. watches. I have a No. 35 (which I think that you're familiar with) and I've just recently acquired a model`83 Canadian Pacific Railway (AT&Co grade - although I wonder if those private label watches were finished differently than the grade from which the movements were drawn). Its not that I dislike the number of jewels, I've got a few 15, 16 and 17 jewel watches from the 1880s and 1890s. I just never got around to getting a model `83 Crescent St.