gold or not gold

[uhries]

Hello,
a seller offered me recently a pocket watch, Waltham, P.S. Bartlett in a gold case. The case is signed Dueber Champion 14 K SN 2768247. Seller says, the case is solid gold. A friend of mine thinks, it isn't solid gold but only 14 K goldplated. What's right ?
Leo

[uhries]

Hello,
a seller offered me recently a pocket watch, Waltham, P.S. Bartlett in a gold case. The case is signed Dueber Champion 14 K SN 2768247. Seller says, the case is solid gold. A friend of mine thinks, it isn't solid gold but only 14 K goldplated. What's right ?
Leo

[Jon Hanson]

gold filled!!!!!

Hope this reaches you in time as I have been banned from helping folks like you.

[Timebuilder]

It is gold filled. Solid, which is the wrong term to use, would say Warranteed U S Assay, then then quality mark would also be there, such as 14kt or maybe even 18kt.

Here is a link that will help you understand quality marks. (http://p200.ezboard.com/fhorologistfrm26.showMessage?topicID=2.topic)

[Douglas Romero]

Leo,

The case would be gold-filled. Here's an example of one I had. Does the case trademark look like this?

[GENEMACHINE]

i NEVER KNOW THAT.

[GENEMACHINE]

I NEVER KNEW THAT. I thought that if it was marked 14K it was solid. And that if it wasn't it would be marked something like " warrenteed 20 years" or similar to that.

[uhries]

Douglas,
thank's for the picture,the watch which was offered me had exactly the same signature as yours. Until now I believed like Genemachine, that the signature 14 k stands for solid Gold. In a german book about Waltham watches I found a description for Waltham cases and it says Waltham cases which are signed 14K are solid gold, 14k outside and 8 K inside. According to this description I had the opinion, that cases which are signed 14K and more are generally solid gold. Seems that I misunderstood the description.
Leo

[terry hall]

was it not dueber that was taken to task at the turn of the 20th century for these case markings?

also the "champion" mark should be a 'tell'

[alan goebes]

Can I ask about three cases I have that I always thought were solid gold? All three are Keystone. The first houses a 12-size 1903 Waltham movement and is marked "Keystone / Guaranteed 14K / .585 Fine." Number 2 houses a 12-size 1915 Keystone Howard and (except for the s/n) is marked the same as #1. The third holds a 10-size 1927 Waltham and is marked "Keystone / 14 K / Colonial." I believe all movements are original to the respective cases. Are any of them solid gold, or are they all g.f.?

Thanks in advance for the opinion(s).

[Tom McIntyre]

Alan, all 3 of your cases are solid 14K gold. The issue is that the mark is not consistently honest. Those particular marks from those companies are honest marks.

The U.S. never had an assay service, so the mark Warranted U. S. Assay does not provide a government guarantee like an English hallmark does. However, I don't recall ever seeing a case with a false "Warranted U. S. Assay" mark.

I also don't recall ever seeing a ".585 Fine" mark that was false.

[AllenWatch]

You should take it to a professional technician for an exam! Or take the pics here, I can see it.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by uhries:
Hello,
a seller offered me recently a pocket watch, Waltham, P.S. Bartlett in a gold case. The case is signed Dueber Champion 14 K SN 2768247. Seller says, the case is solid gold. A friend of mine thinks, it isn't solid gold but only 14 K goldplated. What's right ?
Leo </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[alan goebes]

Thanks, Tom, I was hoping that was the case. :smile: