American Waltham Keystone pocketwatch case.J.Boss

[diggummup]

I am looking for information regarding a pocketwatch case vs the works.The works are engraved with 15 jewels american waltham watch company.safety barrel.6915409.It has gold etching on the dial face with little red stones on the hour points.The case has hinged front and back covers.On one it is marked Gauranteed 20 years J.Boss 2935485,the other side is marked keystone watch case 2935485.It is gold in color.My question is: Did this case come with this watch originally or is there any way to tell or date the cover.Also,i'm new here and don't know too much about this piece other than I think it dates to 1894-95.It is a very beautiful watch in excellent looking condition,but it doesn't work.Can anyone recommend a reputable repair person and/or are there even parts available for these older timepieces?Forgive my ignorance I know hardly anything about old pocketwatches except i've always wanted one and now I have one.For some reason they have always intrigued me.Hmm?

[diggummup]

I am looking for information regarding a pocketwatch case vs the works.The works are engraved with 15 jewels american waltham watch company.safety barrel.6915409.It has gold etching on the dial face with little red stones on the hour points.The case has hinged front and back covers.On one it is marked Gauranteed 20 years J.Boss 2935485,the other side is marked keystone watch case 2935485.It is gold in color.My question is: Did this case come with this watch originally or is there any way to tell or date the cover.Also,i'm new here and don't know too much about this piece other than I think it dates to 1894-95.It is a very beautiful watch in excellent looking condition,but it doesn't work.Can anyone recommend a reputable repair person and/or are there even parts available for these older timepieces?Forgive my ignorance I know hardly anything about old pocketwatches except i've always wanted one and now I have one.For some reason they have always intrigued me.Hmm?

[mikeh]

Hi,

Welcome to the NAWCC Message Board.

According to the Waltham records, your watch is a model 1890 which is a 6 size watch. It was part of a run of 1700 movements completed between Apr. 1897 and Jan. 1900.

The case you described is referred to as a hunter case, meaning that the winding stem is at the 3:00 position and there is a cover over the front of the crystal. The dial you described is called a fancy dial and are quite collectible. Naturally, the fancier the better, and condition is very important.

The 20 year guarantee on the case implies that it is gold filled, meaning it is made of gold plates over brass or some other base metal. The number of years typically implies the amount of gold (thickness). 20 years is common and near the high end.

The best indication of whether the case is original is to look for extra screw marks. Basically, the watch is held in the case with 'case screws'. There are usually two of them and they are right near the edge of the movement. They are so close to the edge that the screw head overlaps the case frame (middle part), preventing the movement from falling out the front. If there was ever another movement in the case, there will be additional half circle screw marks around the frame. However, the lack of extra screw marks only means that there has never been another movement of a different model in the case, so another movement just like yours could have been in the case originally. There are other signs, but basically it involves knowing a little about the way cases in a particular time period were designed. Bottom line - there may not be a way to tell for certain.

Generally speaking, the wearable parts (staffs, mainsprings) are available. However, anything else can be tough to find. Fortunately for you, there were a great number of model 90 watches made so partial movements are plentiful and can be cannibalized. You can check the NAWCC Member Links (http://www.nawcc.org/headquarters/memlinks.htm) page for a repair person. You shouldn't have too much trouble finding one in South Fla.

I know hardly anything about old pocketwatches except i've always wanted one and now I have one.For some reason they have always intrigued me.Hmm?

Congratulations! That's how we all started. It's my duty to warn you that you are now hooked and will soon be buying more watches. Find a safe place to keep them. :wink:

[Ttime]

Hello, I'm interested determining what kind of Amer.W.Watch I have. I'ts a hunter style in what is stamped 14k rose quartz gold. underneath the 14kt stamped is # 16604 with duck stamped obove it. the only numbers stamped on it seemed to be near the balance, underneath the dust cover.I did not open the back further since I have no knowlege on watch repair or service. The watch works and I would like to find a matching rose gold chain, however have no idea where to look. Any help will do . Thanks

[diggummup]

Thanks MikeH,I am afraid you might be right.I seem to have the collector bug in me.Every six months to a year or so I start collecting something else!Thanks again for the invaluable information about this watch.

[Kent]

Hi Ttime:

Welcome to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

The serial number on the serial number on the movement (the "works") is needed to identify your watch. You might find the information in "How To Open A Pocket Watch Case" (http://www.knology.net/%7Eksinger/opencase.txt) useful.

The American Waltham Watch Co. (Waltham, MA) had its origins in the 1850's. It was the first successful company in America to manufacture watches in mass production using machinery to make identical (or at least, near identical) parts. Over the next hundred years or so of its existence, its output of jeweled watches (over 34 million) was only exceeded by one other company, the National Watch Co. at Elgin, IL. Commonly referred to as "Waltham," the company made a full line of watches ranging from modest, affordable watches to some of the finest watches made in this country. An 1884 article on the American Watch Co. (http://members.aol.com/gfrauen10/walthampage.html) is available on Greg Frauenhoff's website.

You can find out some basic facts about your Waltham watch by entering the serial number on the movement (the "works") in the field on the Serial Number link accessable from the NAWCC Information Storage (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/walsernum.htm) website. Don't use any commas in entering the serial number. There is also a Glossary (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/Glossary.htm) of the terms provided by the serial number lookup. Note: When a number appears by itself in the Comment Column, it is the page in the factory serial list where the entry and explaination appeared. i.e. "Comment 42" is on page 42 of “Serial Numbers With Description of Waltham Watch Movements,” Waltham Watch Co., Waltham, MA, 1954, (commonly referred to as "The Gray Book"). Or, a similar search may be done at the Swiss - Waltham Website (http://www.waltham.ch/cgi/waltham/search.asp). This website also has a short history of the American Waltham Watch Co. and other interesting information. But, as old ref::Tom McIntyre Pointed Out, more complete information is available at the NAWCC Information Storage website.

Should the date not be listed in the search of the NAWCC Information Storage - Waltham Serial Number Data Base, Oldwatch.com's Waltham Production Date Chart (http://www.oldwatch.com/walthamdate.html), or the PocketWatchSite's Waltham Date Table (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/walthamserials.html) are a means for determining the approximate production date. In general, we think of serial number lists (not just for Waltham, but for other watch manufacturers as well) to only be accurate within a year or two at best, and recognize that there are numerous exceptions wherein which the dates may be off as much as 3 years or more.

Catalog Information for some Waltham movements can be seen online in scans from the:

1887 (Updated to 1889) S.F. Myers Catalog at:
www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1887_S_F_Myers/m_index.html

1896 Marshall Field Jewelry Catalog at:
www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1896_Marshall_Field/m_index.html

1903 Oy Company Catalog at:
www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1903_Oy_Company/m_index.html

1917 Oskamp-Nolting Catalog at:
www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1917_Oskamp-Nolting/m_index.html

To view, go to the Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page at elginwatches.com, then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on 'Go'.

Only a small percentage of American watches (or Swiss watches for the North American market) were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's (even then, uncased movements were furnished to the trade at least until the 1960's). Most watch companies just made movements (the "works") in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments.

Or, watches were sold by mail-order. Large outfits such as Sears, Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, or T. Eaton (in Canada), would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs. Smaller mail-order retailers would case the watches, typically in a 20-year gold filled case and offer it only that way, with the buyer not having a choice of cases.