Swiss Avia 435C Ball PW questions

[Kent]

Hermann:

I'm not quite clear about what watch you have. Ball, an American company, with an office in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, contracted with the Record Watch Co. (Swiltzerland), in the mid-to-late 1950's for 16-size movements, one caliber/grade of which was the 435C. The 435C was used in railroad time service in both the U.S. and Canada and probably Mexico as well.

The 435C is a lever-set watch. Lever-set means that you have to pull out a lever to allow the crown (winding knob) to engage the hands to set them. Starting just around 1907, it was generally required that watches used in railroad time service be lever-set. This was to prevent the inadvertent changing of the time while winding a watch. On the 435C, the lever is located under the bezel (the metal ring that holds the crystal), at the 56 minute position. The bezel screws off to expose the lever. To set the time, the lever is pulled out, parallel to the surface of the dial. Usually, people hold the watch in their left hand and use their right thumbnail to catch the lever's little tab and pull it out. Be careful not to catch the edge of the dial with your thumbnail, dials get chipped that way.

I believe that there were commercial grade (non-railroad grade) 17-jewel Record-Ball caliber/grade 435 watches made. There were also about 300 21-jewel railroad grade 435 watches, about 2,700 railroad grade 435B watches and about another 3,400 railroad grade 435C watches that were produced.

Any competent watch repairer can fit a new crystal to your watch. There should be parts to carry out other repairs, but I suppose it depends upon what else is actually wrong with it.

As it says in the upper left-hand corner of this page, we don’t provide timepiece values. However, once you learn the proper description of your watch, you should be able to find similar watches offered by internet dealers, or on eBay, and see what they are selling for. Alternately, check the value in the "Complete Price Guide to Watches, No 24," C. Shugart, T. Engle and R. Gilbert, Cooksey Shugart Publications, Cleveland, TN, 2004 (a new edition comes out each year in February. This book is available at libraries, most major bookstores and online at the NAWCC Gift Shop (http://www.nawcc.org/giftshop/americart/bk_watch.htm)).

Good luck,
Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[Kent]

Hermann:

It is all the more important to describe the watch properly if you plan to sell it on eBay. We would much rather help people understand what they have than see inaccurate or poor descriptions in internet or mail order listings.

I've just measured the movement diameter of commerical 16-size Record-Ball watch, across the top of the bridges and it measured almost 41mm - but this is not the correct place to measure a movement. The correct measurement is the diameter of the plate to which the dial is attached. For a 16-size watch, this is a little over 43mm (1-5/30" + 16/30" = 1-21/30"). For an 18-size watch, the diameter of that plate comes out to 44.9mm (1-5/30" + 18/30" = 1-23/30"). Naturally, there is some minor variation from the nominal size.

The likelihood of a Swiss-made Ball watch having 21-jewels, marked 435C being an 18-size watch is very, very tiny. One would almost say that it would be unique. The chances are almost overwhelming that it is a late 1950's era 16-size watch.

I've put a link (below) to a picture of a Record-Ball Caliber/Grade 435B There are only minor differences in several of the jewel mountings between the Ball 435B and the Ball 435C. If your watch appears different from this, please post a picture (see below), and/or tell us all of the markings on the movement.

In posting a picture, a digital camera would be very helpful. For an open-face, screw back & bezel watch you can get good results by placing the movement on a flatbed scanner. A hunting-case movement, or an open-face movement in a hinged case would have to be removed from the case for this to work. Otherwise, its back to the camera.

Larry Jones has written up a useful article on Image Posting (http://www.larjones.com/data/imagehelp.html), which may be helpful.

Or, when you click on the Reply button, at the lower right-hand corner of the bottom post in a thread, the Reply To: box that opens has a toolbar at its top. The right-hand icon on the toolbar is a paperclip. Clicking upon the paperclip icon will open a box that allows you to select a picture file to attach to your post. Use the Browse button to navigate to the location in which the picture file resides on your disk drive and select it. Since this only permits one picture per reply, you can reply once for each picture.

If you have a problem posting the picture(s), you can attach it (them) to an e-mail to me (you can get my email address by clicking on my name in the upper left-hand corner of this post and viewing my Public Profile) and I'll post it (them) for you.

Its also helpful if you can post all the markings that are on the movement (the "works") in case they can't be seen in the picture(s).

Good luck,
Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[Jeff Hess]

The Ball Company has been putting other peoples movements in their watches for abotu 100 years. Even Swiss movements were used by Webb C. Ball about 100 years ago.

Mr. Ball was a genius and it is a testimony to this genius that he was able to use others movements to help promote watchmaking while promoting his own name as well.

Jeff Hess

JPH

[Kent]

So Jeff ...

... do you know of any 21-jewel, 18-size, Swiss-built Ball-signed watches?

[Jeff Hess]

nope.

BUt I have sure owned Swiss Ball watches from around a hundred years ago!

Vacherons to be precise....1905 I think (someone will ocrrect me here I am sure)

Jeff

JPH

[Kent]

Jeff:

I think that the V&C-Ball's go back into the 1890's, but I don't have hard documention to support that. These are usually signed "Ball's Standard." There are others that lack a V&C marking, but look like them. Most seem to have been 16-size, but I've seen pictures of smaller watches as well.

It's hard to separate those Swiss watches that were privately labeled for Ball's Cleveland jewelry store from small quantities of others that he might have distributed. However, just judging by their small quantities, they could all have been sold through the Cleveland store.

Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[Kent]

Hermann:

Its a nice watch, and the Montgomery dial is less common than the standard Arabic dial that I've seen on these watches. Under the bezel, does the case only have a lever slot at the 56 minute position, or is there another slot cut at the 6 minute position?

Good luck on your auction,
Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[Kent]

Hermann:

Is there only the one slot, or is there another slot at the 6 minute position?

Thanks