John Miller Cairo Illinois Private Label

[Kent]

GD:

"American Pocket Watches Beginning to End...1830-1980, Identification and Price Guide," Roy Ehrhardt & William Meggers, Jr., Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1987 (A new edition is still in print, see Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com)) shows only the following Illinois watches privately labeled for John A. Miller, Cairo, IL:

18-Size, Bunn Special, 24-Jewel
18-Size, Bunn Special, 21-Jewel
18-Size, Bunn Special, 17-Jewel
16-Size, Sangamo, 23-Jewel
16-Size, 179, 21-Jewel

"Railroad Watches Identification and Price Guide," Roy Ehrhardt & William Meggers, Jr., Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1995 (Still in print, see Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com)) shows that the 24-Jewel Bunn Special was made with both nickel and tu-tone (gold-on-nickel) damaskeening.

Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[Kent]

GD

How about giving us the serial numbers and movement, dial and case details for your Illinois watches for our data base?

Thanks,
Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[John Cote]

GD,

As you probably know, you have a couple of really nice watches there. The 21 jewel is a grade 179, which is my favorite 16s Illinois grade, and the 17j is a very under-appreciated, but very high grade 187. You don't see these Miller watches all of the time, not that they are really rare, but they are all nice, high grade watches, so people keep them.

I love that 17 jewel grade 187. If you take it apart, you will see that Illinois really put a finish on this one.

JohnCote
President, Indiana Chapter 18 - NAWCC
Member Chapter 149 (Member #105)
http://www.interstatetime.com

[Kent]

GD:

Thanks for data. This is a nice pair of watches.

Ed and I are preparing a Railroaders' Corner column on Illinois' model 5. If you (or anyone else) would be interested in furnishing pictures of your watches for psooible use in that column, please contact me offline.
K_Singer@knology.net
Again, thanks!
Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[Kent]

A number of our regular readers of this message board have responded with pictures, and offers of pictures, to use in the Bulletin. We appreciate the time and trouble they went to to help us out and they have our thanks.

One question came up, what about the model 4 hunting-case Getty model? So, if we receive pictures of those, we'll include them.

Meanwhile, a link to a "teaser" is below.

Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[Russ Snyder]

Kent,

I've been keeping track of the runs of the "185" which show examples marked "Burlington Watch Co." The data I have is more complete than what was provided on the CD-ROM version of my database which was distributed at the National Convention.

For example, of the 35 runs of 16S-19J-HN4L of Grade 185, all but 10 have had at least one BWCo. confirmed. To date I have seen only one that was NOT a P.L. -- s/n 2481091 from a run of 30 in 1912.

Of the 37 runs of 19J Model 5, all but 13 have had at least one BWCo. confirmed. I have not seen one that was not a P.L.

Let me know if you need any specific information for the article.

Russ

[Kent]

Hi Russ:

Thanks for your offer, we'll probably end up asking a series of questions as we get further into it, but that's a bit down the road.

Meanwhile, here is a list of the movements from our data base that we have identified as being grade 185. I doubt that this tells you anything new, but one never knows, so here it is:

1,696,018 17 HC Non-Mag Watch Co.
1,956,910 17 O- Dial: "Electric Railroad Standard"
1,956,921 17 O- Dial: "Electric Railroad Standard"
2,049,687 21 O- 185
2,058,460 19 O- Burl
2,101,878 19 O- Burl
2,101,970 19 O- Burl
2,106,403 19 O- Burl
2,129,110 19 O- Burl
2,149,418 17 O- Dial: "Electric Railroad Standard"
2,153,829 19 HC Burl
2,156,369 19 HC Burl
2,157,968 19 HC Burl
2,168,530 19 O- Burl - Best Guess @ S/N
2,189,167 19 O- Burl
2,189,230 19 O- Burl
2,190,167 19 HC Burl
2,190,500 19 HC Burl - Lst 2 Dgts Ukn
2,190,941 19 O- Burl
2,194,156 19 O- Burl
2,194,700 19 O- Burl - Lst 2 Dgts Ukn
2,194,859 19 O- Burl
2,206,582 19 O- Burl
2,210,887 19 O- Burl
2,332,906 19 O- Burl
2,380,145 19 O- Burl
2,380,574 19 O- Burl
2,380,597 19 O- Burl
2,380,979 19 O- Burl
2,394,010 19 O- Burl
2,461,731 19 HC Burl
2,464,541 23 O- Wilson Bros King of the Road
2,465,620 19 HC Burl

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[Fred Hansen]

One more 185 #

1876601 - "Electric Railroad Standard" 17j, OF (dial and movement)

This is the first watch from the first run noted in Megger's book with this marking. Have any been seen marked "Electric RR Standard" from even earlier runs?

Fred

[Russ Snyder]

Kent,

I did add three more BWCo. runs to my database from the serial numbers you listed.

Also, the watch you marked "2,464,541 23 O- Wilson Bros King of the Road" shows up in my records (and Meggers') as a Grade 186. I'm not aware of any 23-jewel Grade 185, and all known 23j 186's are marked King of the Road. The run which includes this one (2464361-2464600) is listed as a 17j "186".

There is a run before this one (2464281-2464360) that were 23j "186" watches. Perhaps there was a typo in your message. Either that, or there are likely now another 60 or so more 23j versions.

Russ

[Kent]

Russ:

Thanks for the heads up on 2,464,541 being grade 186. I suspect that that particular typo happened when the information was entered into our data base. Its now been corrected.

Looking more closely at the entry, I'm beginning to suspect that the source may have gotten the serial number wrong (I checked the source document and confirmed the number and the 23-jewel statement). As you pointed out, 2,464,541 is supposed to be a 17-jewel watch, while all of the 23-jewel "King of the Road" watches cut off at 2,464,360. Hummm.... The source was a mail-order watch dealer who is known to Ed and I as having been less accurate on details than most others. We don't fault him. His goal was to sell watches, not to record serial numbers for posterity.

Are there any other known (or suspected) discrepancies in this area of the Illinois serial number list?

Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[rrwatch]

Kent and I just completed some further digging on the Grade 186 he had recorded as S/N 2,464,541. The correct serial number is 2,464,341, and it is a TuTone, 23 jewel Grade 186, PL for Wilson Bros., "King of the Road". Apparently when I bought the watch in 1995, the dealer list had the wrong serial number, which I corrected when I received the watch, but I never sent the correction to Kent. Sorry if this caused any confusion.

Ed Ueberall
NAWCC #49688

[Jerry Freedman]

I have a model 4, serial number 1,409,129 which according to Meggers is a grade 184. If Meggers' production numbers are to be believed, it is one of sixty eight made. This is one of the movements without a watch company name on it. Just 19 jewels, safety pinion and a serial number. It has a narrow stripe dmasceening finish. What makes it any different from the 183 and the 185, and why such a short production run?

[Russ Snyder]

Kent & Ed,

Glad to learn the "mystery" of the 23j watch has been solved. This caused no problems for me, Ed, in fact I'm delighted to have the additional data you two provided on the 185 runs and Burlington markings.

The more information I can enter into my database, the more complete it will be. Checking the list of numbers only took a few minutes, and I got three new pieces of information in the process. That's a definite PLUS for me.

Russ

[Russ Snyder]

Jerry,

I would love to have a digital photo of your "184" to put in my database. With only 68 potential to look at, I may never get to see another one!

Thanks.

Russ