Silicone spray?

[bil2054]

It occured to my wandering brain the other day, "Hey! How about silicone spray for lubricating/rust proofing main springs?" I have used it over the years for a variety of industrial machinery and automotive applications. Any thoughts or known contra-indications about this?

Bill Miller

[bil2054]

It occured to my wandering brain the other day, "Hey! How about silicone spray for lubricating/rust proofing main springs?" I have used it over the years for a variety of industrial machinery and automotive applications. Any thoughts or known contra-indications about this?

Bill Miller

[bil2054]

:redface: That doesn't sound very appetizing! Tell you what, Phil, I'm going to try a little on an old junk spring, and leave it exposed somewhere around the house. If it goes into "dust magnet mode", we should have results very quickly! Ooops, maybe I shouldn't have confessed that!

Bill Miller

[Bill Ward]

I was just now (really! 10 minutes ago!) reading in Bulletin #254 (Jun '88) an Answer Box letter from Clayton G. Smith of Lyndonville, NY about use of Sprayon TFE Teflon dry lubricant for mainsprings. He claims no rusting or other problems (in normal use) over several years. He outlines his careful cleaning prep with degreaser and WD-40 and steel wool.
Horology doesn't seem to hold much charm for the inventors of lubrication theory- acording to them, the very slow and jerky motion would apparently contrvene the use of normal lubricants. Anyway, what could be more of a dust magnet than our regular oils and grease?

[bil2054]

That's sort of the way I had been thinking, Bill. I know that my silicone treated camping gear, for instance, seems to repel dirt as well as water. I did as I suggested I would, giving an old spring several light coats of a common product such as you might use on your shoes. This morning, the surface of the spring is VERY slick, and doesn't feel at all tacky. I'll leave it hanging around, and report back periodically on it's dust attracting properties, and whether it develops any other anti-social characteristics.
Anybody else tried "modern" lubricants? If so, what kind, and what results?
I don't think I would want silicone near the bearing surfaces of a fine clock, pivots, etc. I don't know how they get the silicone into the product, but this progression comes to mind: silcone > silica > SAND!

Bill Miller

[doug sinclair]

Bill,

A recent thread on this board discussed WD40 at length. I don't know how that stuff works and whether there is silicone in it, but since someone mentioned it, I will advise you that the major concensus re: WD 40, was DON'T use it! For mainsprings, I have used hypoid gear oil and chassislube for years. I've never tried "for the purpose" clock mainspring lubricants.

Doug S.

[lperzy]

I have used on mainsprings slix 50 no problems so far

[Eckmill]

I just can't resist injecting something good about the use of WD-40. It has some good solvent characteristics.

In my opinion, WD-40 applied generously to a fully extended mainspring while rubbing vigorusly with a steel wool pad is one of the most efficient ways to remove all traces of congealed lubricants, dirt and rust from a mainspring.

The final step in the process is to remove all traces of the nasty stuff from the spring and then lubricate the surfaces of the spring with whatever you favor.

Use caution. The edges of some mainsprings are very sharp. Should you feel any nicks along the edge, stone it smooth after making certain the nick is not the terminus of a fracture in the steel.

Now, there is a horological use for WD-40! :wink:

I have no business or financial interest in the product mentioned.

Les

[This message was edited by H.J. (Les) Lesovsky on January 10, 2003 at 12:23.]

[This message was edited by H.J. (Les) Lesovsky on January 10, 2003 at 16:30.]

[Mike306p/Ansoniaman]

SILICONE SPRAY VS GOOD OLD GEAR LUBE 75 -90 WEIGHT ?? MIKE 0136966 :smile:

[Len Lataille]

I, too,have used Slick 50 for several years with no problems. But the silicone does sound interesting to try.

Len
THE CLOCK CUCKOO

[harold bain]

It is good to see a little experimentation along these lines. I recently tried slick 50 and was pleased with the results for both cleaning and lube. However only time will tell.

[tymekeypur]

Am a believer in 'Slick 50' as a cleaner, but finish the spring 'lube' w/ Keystone grease...haven't heard any 'rumblings' from my clock's springs since...

jc #0157194

[Len Lataille]

I had some Keystone mainspring grease that I wanted to finish using. I used it in place of the Slick 50 that I have used for quite some time. I started getting customer complaints of "slapping". I regreased with Slick 50 and the problems went away. The remains of the Keystone, I will use elsewhere.

Len
THE CLOCK CUCKOO

[tymekeypur]

To EACH his own!!

jc #0157194

[John Hubby]

No idea about the silicone spray, but have been using Slick 50 now for about 12 years with excellent results. Since I specialize in 400-Day clocks, and these unwind "very" slowly, I found that just about any kind of grease would wind up with the mainspring stuck and the clock stopping in very erratic patterns. Then tried Mobil 1, which also works very well, and on someone else's suggestion tried Slick 50.

About 4 years ago I did a side by side test over a period of six months using two "identical" 30-Day torsion clocks, one with Moebius mainspring grease and the other with Slick 50. After three months the mainsprings were thoroughly cleaned and the lubricants switched between the two clocks to eliminate mechanical differences. The results clearly showed Slick 50 superior to the Moebius, by more than 15% running time. Since then, haven't looked back.

One other detail, it appears the clocks work best if the mainspring is fully wound and let down about three times while still on the winder to squeeze out excess oil before replacing in the clock.

John Hubby dba Pas-Times
400-Day Clock Specialist

[lylepete]

As a flyfishermen the one thing you learn is you don't use silicone on your flyline because is will act as a dirt magnet which reduces the distance you can cast, and wear out yours guides on your overpriced rod. I would think it would do the same to a clock. As for slick 50 it is mostly 50w motor oil with some teflon to boot. I use gear oil for my main springs looks and smells just like keystone mainspring oil and haven't had any problems yet. Which leads me to believe that many of the lubricants we use on clocks is just some common lubricant and nothing special. The problem comes when trying to figure out which one it is.
Bill

[kirklox]

I use Slick50 and the only problem is migration. I try to remove all excess as I can.

kirxklox (Sam Kirk)
Web Horology MB (www.webhorology.com)

[jparker]

WOW! :redface: What a concensus. For lubrication of main springs, my old mentor taught me to use a mixture of vasaline and sewing machine oil. Mixed together to form a consistency to flow out the nozzle of a ketchup nozzle. How is that one? Jim

[jparker]

You guys had me thinking about this all day yesterday. Finally, I went out and bought a can of silicon spray. I am going to try it on one of my restorations and see how it does. The person, who talked about the fly rod, convinced me. If it wears out the guides, it seems it is a good lubricant, for mainsprings. I feel the dust part is something everyone, using anything, is going to have to tolerate, given time. Jim

[RODALCO]

Silicone spray works well for me, being in the electrical industry we use it in bulk on high voltage switch gear. It doesn't run an provide a very thin protective film over the mechanism.
CRC 808 Silicone Spray

I admit and I have used just normal engine oil on clocks although through this forum I bought a bottle of synthetic Mobil 1 Supersyn 5W-50 and see how that goes. It's mainly used on electric time clocks to keep the pivots lubricated, some of them especially from the motor run quite fast 1 rev / 1 sec.

For low speed and high torque shafts like the spring arbor or weight arbor pivots which run slow I use Duckham Titan 3 roller bearing grease which works fine.
It's awkward to apply because it is very sticky.
Has a purpely reddish colour.

Regards Raymond

[WT Clocks]

You Guys may be interested in this article:
http://yarchive.net/chem/wd40.html

[Chris]

I'm old enough to know better, but still too young to care! To degrease springs and stubborn lantern pinions, I use carburetor cleaner on a rag. It gets EVERYTHING off the mainsprings. It is very aromatic, so you might open a window or do it outdoors (unlike me; I'm used to the fumes!!)

I've been experimenting with Superlube (sold through Merritt's and local hardware stores) for both mainsprings and pivots. It seems to be working fine in all applications. I have Keystone mid weight oil that I use on springs as well, but I'm trying the Superlube as it's cheap and local.

I'm still soaking all my parts in Simple Green with good results. Just my 2 pennies worth! Chris

[rocky]

I have been using Tri flow to lube mainsprings for a few years now and have not had any problems.
Rocky

[Ralph]

Personally, I try not to have silicone products anywhere near wood antiques.

Here's a dissertation that John Hubby posted a while back on another list.


John Hubby wrote:

>I may be able to shed some light on the "why" and "when" this started. 15 years ago or so Bill Ellison (owner of Horolovar, "THE" 400-Day place) was not happy with the usual mainspring lubricants being used for 400-Day clocks. Virtually all of them had the same problem, being "stiction", or the coils sticking together and then releasing intermittently. This led to the clocks stopping at times, poor timekeeping because of irregular power available, and in severe cases mainspring breakage. Evidently this is accentuated in 400-Day clocks because of the very slow unwinding action of the mainsprings.
>
>Before taking over Horolovar Bill was an engineer for GM and had been involved in lubrication testing among other things. He recalled that synthetic oils generally exhibited two properties that could prove interesting for 400-Day clock mainspring service: 1) Resistance to oxidation and formation of varnish, and 2) consistent viscosity performance over a wide range of pressure and temperatures.
>
>Bill started a trial using two or three of the well known clock mainspring greases and oils (none of them offered synthetics at that time), and picked Mobil 1 10W30 as the test synthetic. The results were totally conclusive, when using Mobil 1 there was no evidence of stiction occuring unless the springs were sloppy wet with oil. With a normal thin coat of oil the springs simply unwound steadily with no evidence of stiction. He has been using Mobil 1 exclusively since then, and recommends it for any clock mainspring application for the same reasons . . smooth performance, no oxidation or degradation in service, excellent performance.
>
>I met Bill 13 years ago at the NAWCC St. Louis Regional, at the same time there was a 400-Day clock display that had been set up by Les McAlister. The three of us decided to form a 400-Day clock chapter for NAWCC, resulting in The International 400-Day Clock Chapter #168 that is now coming up on its 10th anniversary with over 500 members.
>
>Bill passed on his recommendations for using Mobil 1, and I switched to that at the time. I also had read in a technical magazine something on the use of lubricants containing colloidal Teflon that indicated the Teflon would "plate out" under pressure and improve long term performance. That led to my trying Slick 50 HP synthetic, and then later (1997) conducting a controlled test of Slick 50 vs Mobil 1 vs Moebius mainspring grease using three identical 30-Day torsion clocks. The results of that test clearly demonstrated the superiority of the synthetics over the petroleum based Moebius, with the Slick 50 performing somewhat better than the Mobil 1. A series of six tests were run with each clock being lubed with one of the test lubes, wound up and let to run down completely, recording the number of days run time. Each lube was tested twice on each clock to eliminate slight mechanical differences. The results showed that with Moebius grease, the average run time was 36 d
>ays. With Mobil 1, the average was 41 days, and with Slick 50 it was 43 days. I haven't looked back since then and have used Slick 50 for all clock mainsprings.
>
>So . . it wasn't money, but just looking for consistent and reliable performance from a 400-Day clock. Using either one (Mobil 1 or Slick 50) will give you that, and I think any of the new synthetics introduced by the clock lube suppliers in the past few years will likely give similar performance. Thing is, a quart of Mobil 1 or Slick 50 is a LOT of oil and is a much less expensive alternative to what you can get from the clock lube suppliers.
>
>John Hubby dba Pas-Times
>Vintage & Antique Electric Clocks
>All Types Torsion Pendulum Clocks
>The Woodlands, TX
>

Ralph

[Bruce Weeks]

I don't like the idea of silicone use anywhere. It will cause helath problems if you get sensitized to it. It is difficult to remove without special solvents and will pollute your cleaning solution the next time you go to clean a clock. I use "Best in the Barrel" MS lube and have never had a problem.

[shutterbug]

WD40 works great on clocks! :smile: Now that I've cause many hearts to seize up, I'll explain. It does a nice job on wooden cases, rubbed with 0000 steel wool very lightly. Makes an old worn out case look 20 years younger :smile: Please don't use it on anything inside the case!

[RJSoftware]

I have read in post from antique phonograph group the desired use of I believe silicon type lubricant.

The reason was that when the silicon dries out it still provides a form of lubrication. And that for that reason it is not suggested to diss-assemble phonograph spring barrels for maintinance purposes.

The reason I read is that when silicon dries it continues to work as lubricant by the particles rolling like little ball bearings. Providing a dry frictionless slip.

This being the testament of phonograph group which witness results of use of silicon back in early 1900's. (As I understood).

So, (if memory serves me correct about it being silicon) it might be an advantage for barrel type spring arrangements such as the old phonographs have.

I don't imagine that open spring arrangements would bennefit.

If I find the post I will provide a link.

RJ

[John Webb]

An alternative to silicone spray might be LPS #3. I have used it for years on aircraft control cables, pulleys, hinges, etc. It's the industry standard for application at annual inspections, and it's still there and looking good after a year of high speed rain/dust/sand etc. I hadn't thought about using it on mainsprings but reading this thread got me thinking. http://www.lpslabs.com/Products/CorrosionInh/Lps3.asp

John