Quick and, hopefully, easily answered question re BWC Co Monarch case

[Kate N]

Thank-you, in advance, to those who reply.

My question:
Is a case marked with the B.W.C.Co. logo AND marked MONARCH, actually a solid gold case?
The Shugart book lists the BWCCo logo as solid but makes no mention of the MONARCH designation.

I searched the forum archives, but found no definitive answer, so I'm hoping that someone who knows will be kind enough to reply.

[Kate N]

Thank-you, in advance, to those who reply.

My question:
Is a case marked with the B.W.C.Co. logo AND marked MONARCH, actually a solid gold case?
The Shugart book lists the BWCCo logo as solid but makes no mention of the MONARCH designation.

I searched the forum archives, but found no definitive answer, so I'm hoping that someone who knows will be kind enough to reply.

[Sheila Gilbert]

The Brooklyn Watch Case Co. (B.W.C.CO.) made the case, however I have no reference to the Monarch name with the company, so I can't say for sure. If you show a picture of it, it may help to find out if it is solid gold or not.

[Kate N]

Thank-you for responding. I do not have any webspace, so I don't believe that posting pics is possible.
The is a case shown online--not on a pw--but also "white gold" which is supposedly 14K. I am unfamiliar with the seller, so I don't know how reliable his/her 14K claim is.
The only things that my PW case and the wristwatch case share are the BWCCO MONARCH marks and the fact that both are of white metal. I hope this helps, in some way and thank-you, again for your time and efforts.
link to online pic w/BWCCO MONARCH mark (http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1326382/i/COMBO0102.jpg)

[Kent]

Hi Kate:

Currently, Tom Chaudoir, the NAWCC Message Board Administrator, is recommending that those who do not have web space in which to place pictures register for a free account at flickr.com (http://flickr.com/register.gne). Their menu-driven procedure for loading pictures is about as easy as it gets.

The Brooklyn Watch Case Co. (BWCCo.) is discussed in the book, "History of the American Watch Case," Warren H. Niebling, Whitmore Publishing, Philadelphia, PA, 1971 (available on loan by mail to members from the NAWCC Library & Research Center (http://www.nawcc.org/Library/library.htm)). Mr. Niebling describes the firm as starting in New York City in 1865 and moving to Brooklyn (at that time, a separate city, one of the country's largest) in 1866. The company started out by making gold and silver cases, but production of the silver cases eventually ceased. Brooklyn made gold-filled cases, and 14-karat solid gold cases, but is perhaps best known for its line of Eagle solid 8K gold cases. However, Brooklyn offered a Variety of Grades (http://photos7.flickr.com/10756891_df9c6699ac_o.jpg), including gold filled cases. Sometime in the late 1890s or early 1900s, Brooklyn was bought out by Joseph Fahys & Co. a major watch case company who had been listed in Brooklyn ads since 1896 as their selling agent. Fahys continued using the the Brooklyn name and trade marks.

[leghorn]

There is a listing under Fahys watch case co. for a "Monarch". It lists it as a 14k, gold filled, 20 year case.


leghorn

[Kate N]

Many thanks for the very helpful replies---I truly appreciate them all!
Kate

[Sheila Gilbert]

Kate,
Beautiful Watch!
It's a 1925 Elgin, 7 Jewel, grade 462, size 3/0s, model 2, made between 1917- 1932

Also, as leghorn said above, Fahy's did make a Monarch that was marked 14k Gold, however the gold issue is questioned by many because it says 20 years which usually indicates gold filled.

The Brooklyn Watch Case Co. was sold to Fahy's.

[leghorn]

Sheila
In my post I stated that Fahy's listed the case as 14k,gold filled. not solid gold.


leghorn

[Kent]

The Fahys Monarch case was a 14 Kt Gold-filled case, Guaranteed For 21-Years Past 1887 (http://photos15.flickr.com/20158346_fcc4e04267_o.jpg), 20-Years After February 1897 (http://photos17.flickr.com/20158347_a6489114b6_o.jpg).

However, this may be different from what a Brooklyn case could be. Fahys may have owned Brooklyn at the time that the case in question was made, but in assigning the name Monarch to a Brooklyn case, there's no telling what the name meant when used by Brooklyn, without seeing Brooklyn documents (ads, case descriptions in distributor catalogs, etc.) or more complete markings on cases.

[Kate N]

The only markings, as shown in the link in my 2nd post, are BWCCo, Monarch and the case serial number. Thanks for the compliment, Shiela, but that wasn't a pic of my watch--just a pic showing the identical case markings.
Kent, as you mentioned, just because the FAHY'S Monarch cases were not solid, I didn't want to jump to the conclusion that they also weren't when BWCCo was the case maker's mark.
I have had an acid test done--definitely not 14K--or even 12.

[Kate N]

Oops, my apologies for the misspelling, Sheila!

[Sheila Gilbert]

OOPS! Sorry, I should have stated that better.
Sorry leghorn.

There is a mark that says the Monarch is 14k as seen in Ehrhardt's Trademark book on page 59, but it also has 20yr under it, which means that it's gold filled. However I have seen it argued in other sites that there are some that are marked 14k without the 20 yr mark. I have never seen one, or know anyone that has seen one either. I trust what I learn here far more than at other sites, that's for sure!

[Sheila Gilbert]

PS Brooklyn did sell a lot of Gold cases.

[Kent]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">PS Brooklyn did sell a lot of Gold cases. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes. In addition to 14 Kt Cases (http://photos17.flickr.com/20253219_f9e50382f8_o.jpg), Brooklyn was know for its 8 Kt Eagle (http://photos17.flickr.com/20224485_3535e73e49_o.jpg) cases.

Edited to add link to Brooklyn 14 Kt case ad.