Waltham Pocket Watch [Archive] - National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors Message Board

Kent

01-01-2005, 04:28 PM

moonstruck:

Welcome to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

As Jon said, and as is noted in the upper left-hand corner of this page, we don’t provide timepiece values. However, once you learn the proper description of your watch, you should be able to find similar watches offered by internet dealers, or on eBay, and see what they are selling for. Alternately, check the value in the "Complete Price Guide to Watches, No 24," C. Shugart, T. Engle and R. Gilbert, Cooksey Shugart Publications, Cleveland, TN, 2004 (a new edition comes out each year in February. This book is available at libraries, most major bookstores and online at the NAWCC Gift Shop (http://www.nawcc.org/giftshop/americart/bk_watch.htm)).

The American Waltham Watch Co. had its origins in the 1850's. It was the first successful company in America to manufacture watches in mass production using machinery to make identical (or at least, near identical) parts. Over the next hundred years or so of its existence, its output of jeweled watches (over 34 million) was only exceeded by one other company, the National Watch Co. at Elgin, IL. Commonly referred to as "Waltham," the company made a full line of watches ranging from modest, affordable watches to some of the finest watches made in this country.

You can find out some basic facts about your Waltham watch by entering the serial number on the movement (the "works") in the field on the NAWCC Information Storage - Waltham Serial Number Data Base (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/LookupSN.asp) (don't use any commas). There is also a Glossary (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/Glossary.htm) of the terms provided by the serial number lookup. Should the date not be listed there, this Waltham Production Date (http://www.oldwatch.com/walthamdate.html) chart is a means for determining the approximate date.

Having done this with your watch's serial number, 17,251,263 (hopefully you gave us the number on the movement), it seems that you have a 7-jewel, size 0 (a small, ladies size) grade number 110 movement in the watch. It was built around 1909.

You can see a picture of the movement and a description of it on page 78 of the 1903 Oy Company Catalog. You can also see the original cost and where your watch fit into Waltham's line.
See:
www.elginwatches.org/scans/sales_catalogs/1903_Oy_Company/m_index.html
(you should copy the above address and paste it in your browser address bar - if it doesn't work the first time, try opening a new window for your browser, one without a previous visit to the NAWCC website - Or, if you get the "Incorrect Access ..." message, chose "the Elgin Watch Collectors Site" and when you get to the Elgin Watch Collectors Site home page, then paste the address in your browser's address bar.)

Only a small percentage of American watches (or Swiss watches for the North American market) were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's. Most watch companies just made movements (the "works") in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments. Or, the jeweler might have a selection of movements that he had previously cased to make up an attractively priced, or special, watch. Today, that might be referred to as "bundling."

Or, watches were sold by mail-order. Large outfits such as Sears, Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, or T. Eaton (in Canada), would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs. Smaller mail-order retailers would case the watches, typically in a 20-year gold filled case and offer it only that way, with the buyer not having a choice of cases.

If you post the markings that are on the case, we may be able to tell you a little bit about that was well.

Happy New Year,
Kent

Kent

01-02-2005, 10:22 AM

moonstruck:

Bates & Bacon (B&B) started making cases in the early 1880s in Attleboro, MA. By the late 1880s, the firm was advertising their old ref::Favorite, Peer, Gem and B&B Grades[/url]. Bates & Bacon's later cases, and their upgrading, can be seen in 1897 and 1898 B&B ads at:
www.elginwatches.org/scans/misc_ads/1897/m_06_b&b_royal.html
and
[url]www.elginwatches.org/scans/misc_ads/1898/m_b_and_b.html
(you should copy the above address and paste it in your browser address bar - if it doesn't work the first time, try opening a new window for your browser, one without a previous visit to the NAWCC website - Or, if you get the "Incorrect Access ..." message, chose "the Elgin Watch Collectors Site" and when you get to the Elgin Watch Collectors Site home page, then paste the address in your browser's address bar.)

Bates & Bacon Cases Grades
B&B, advertised in the 1880s
"Favorite" > originally guaranteed for 20 years, after 1897 for 25 years
"Gem" > advertised in the 1880s
"Peer" > reported to have been guaranteed for 20 years, appearing as early as 1883 and as late as 1893
"Puritan" > guaranteed for 5 years
"Regal" > guaranteed for 10 years
"Royal" > originally guaranteed for 15 years, after 1897 for 20 years

In 1901, B&B was bought out by the Philadelphia Watch Case Co. which continued the use of the B&B name and some of the names of their gold-filled case grades. Guarantees on B&B cases continued to be honored by Philadelphia, viz.: "A new case of the same grade given free of charge for any case that fails to wear the full guaranteed period, without conditions, without charge and without quibbling."

Hope this helps,
Kent