ornamental engine turning machines

[Barry Parker]

Anyone interested in 'rose engines' or engine turning machines etc. may learn a lot from the detail and pics shown in these links.
I have no connection to the seller.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=940352500

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1745600994

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1744569199
Edited to take out the offending reference to damaskeening.
Barry Parker


[This message has been edited by Barry Parker (edited 07-01-2002).]

[Barry Parker]

Anyone interested in 'rose engines' or engine turning machines etc. may learn a lot from the detail and pics shown in these links.
I have no connection to the seller.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=940352500

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1745600994

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1744569199
Edited to take out the offending reference to damaskeening.
Barry Parker


[This message has been edited by Barry Parker (edited 07-01-2002).]

[hc3]

Truly amazing! Thank you!

[ron schneider]

rose engine or turning machines are quite different than damaskeening machines and the work is not the same

doc ron

[Ball992B]

Nice post Barry

[Barry Parker]

Re the comment in the post of Tom's;
"I don't think there is anyone alive with the skill to operate the machine"
There is a site at;
http://www.pledge.co.uk/
They appear to be very active in engine turning and decorative designs on metals, including watch and clock dials and cases.
They say that they can replicate any decorative pattern or design.
They have a forum on the site with several postings from U.S. people interested in this subject.
Regards, Barry Parker

[Tom McIntyre]

It is possible that a skilled person with a rose engine could learn to operate a damaskeening machine. However, they are much more complex because it is all vernier adjustments and touch whereas the rose engine is settings that you can record in a book and repeat readily.

I will have to take a look at their site. I am sure they could do the lace doily winding wheels on the Elgin Grade 155 and 161 just from the pictures in the eBay ads.

Creating a design from scratch is, in many ways, easier than duplicating one. So matching parts on a Waltham 72 model, for instance, would be a real challenge even for the guys who did it back in the 1880's.

------------------
Tom McIntyre
Past President, NAWCC Chapters 174 and 87
Member Chapters 8, 87, 149, 159, 161 and 174
NAWCC: Crafts Committee, Web Committee
Pocket Horology Web (http://www.pocketwatch.org)
Tommy the JOAT's Web (http://www.AWCo.org)

[Greg Crockett]

In the early part of the 1800's an Englishman named Holtzaphel(spl?) made some of the first such lathes. Some of his ornamental turning machines came with a set of books for the rich gentlemen machinists who used them to make fancy ivory objects, etc. for amusement. Other Holtzaphel machines went to make bank note plates and so forth. At any rate, some years ago, two of the old Holtzaphel books were reprinted. If there is any interest, and there should be! I'll look up my copies when I get home and post the particulars.

[Greg Crockett]

The books:

The Principles & Practice of Ornamental or Complex Turning by John Jacob Holtzapffel. Copywright 1973 by Dover Publications, originaly published in 1884. 647 pages 600 illustrations. Lib. or Congress No. 72-95048

Hand or Simple Turning Principles and Practice (same author) copywrit 1976 by Dover. Originaly pub. in 1881. Lib.of Congress No. 76-10911

Try these books, you will enjoy them!