Please Help ID Minute Repeater

[eastmanjh]

I am trying to ID this minute repeater for a friend. The dial and movement are signed J.C. Grogan, Pittsburgh, PA. The movement and case are numbered 11514. The movement is also marked "Adjusted". By my count the jewels number 29. The case is marked JS 18 as shown. I believe this is a high grade Swiss movement, possibly Patek or other good maker. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who can id the movement maker and case maker.
Thanks,
Jim Dyson http://members.aol.com/eastmanjh/minuteR.jpg http://members.aol.com/eastmanjh/minutedial.jpg http://members.aol.com/eastmanjh/minuteJS.jpg http://members.aol.com/eastmanjh/minutemvt.jpg

[eastmanjh]

I am trying to ID this minute repeater for a friend. The dial and movement are signed J.C. Grogan, Pittsburgh, PA. The movement and case are numbered 11514. The movement is also marked "Adjusted". By my count the jewels number 29. The case is marked JS 18 as shown. I believe this is a high grade Swiss movement, possibly Patek or other good maker. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who can id the movement maker and case maker.
Thanks,
Jim Dyson http://members.aol.com/eastmanjh/minuteR.jpg http://members.aol.com/eastmanjh/minutedial.jpg http://members.aol.com/eastmanjh/minuteJS.jpg http://members.aol.com/eastmanjh/minutemvt.jpg

[Tom McIntyre]

The J&S is for Jeannot & Schiebler of New York which was founded around 1892.

The movement is definitely not Patek, they never used the damaskeening as it appears on this watch. Perhaps someone else will have a clue to the maker.

Here is a link to a Patek in a J&S Case (http://www.awco.org/European/Patek/PatekJS/PatekJS.htm).

------------------
Tom McIntyre
Past President, NAWCC Chapter 174
Pocket Horology Web (http://www.pocketwatch.org)
Tommy the JOAT's Web (http://www.AWCo.org)

[This message has been edited by Tom McIntyre (edited 04-01-2002).]

[eastmanjh]

I got this comparison picture this evening. It looks very close. Any ideas? Audemars, Piguet & CIE.? The serial number fits the series and would be about 1907.
Jim Dyson http://members.aol.com/eastmanjh/compare.jpg

[4thdimension]

Jim, I don't know who made it. It is such a
nice watch, but many Swiss watches of this era are anonymous. I would like to know why. It is not the highest grade, with
no wolf winding etc., but there is enough quality obvious in your scan that makes me wish it were signed.
Building brand loyalty and studiously marking their movements was the norm in America. The Swiss let the work of their brilliant workman go unsigned. Didn't they anticipate a collector market?
Most English watches of the era had a name on them if they had any degree of quality to them, though there are exceptions. I haven't done any proper survey but it seems that at least half of the high-grade Swiss mv'ts from
the last quarter of the 19th C. were not
properly signed. It seems like poor business practice to me.
Your watch is an excellent example
Jim. I know no logical reason they kept the company name anonymous. Time
has proven it was bad business practice
but the motive is a mystery (at least to me).
-Cort

------------------
<[';')>

[Jeff Hess]

Anyone think it could be an AP that was finished up in the usa. The damaskeening looks American.

J&S advertised heavily to the trade for casing imports and are often seen on imported Pateks. But this is no Patek as Tom pointed out.

[Tom Huber]

If this watch is marked "Pittsburgh" and not "Pittsburg", then it is post 1903(the year that the h was added).

Tom

[eastmanjh]

Thanks to all who have replied to my request. Looks like best guess is Audemars Piget circa 1907. The case is Jeannot & Schiebler, 18KT. The damascene flower pattern is interesting for a Swiss watch. This Patek, although not the same watch, has some interesting similarities. http://members.aol.com/eastmanjh/PatekMR.jpg

[Steve Maddox]

I think the tentative ID of this watch as an Audemars Piguet product is probably correct. A very similar movement is shown in the Ball Watch Co. section of Shugart's "Complete Guide.....," which is also attributed to AP.

------------------
Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas