Thomas Haley

[Kent]

James:

By the wording of your request, I can see that you are aware that we don't provide values. Our normal response is to advise people to learn the proper description of their watch, and then find similar watches offered by internet dealers, or on eBay, and see what they are selling for. Alternately, people can check the value in the "Complete Price Guide to Watches, No 24," C. Shugart, T. Engle and R. Gilbert, Cooksey Shugart Publications, Cleveland, TN, 2004 (a new edition comes out each year in February. This book is available at libraries, most major bookstores and online at the NAWCC Gift Shop (http://www.nawcc.org/giftshop/americart/bk_watch.htm)).

In your case, the above mentioned book may not work too well since Thomas Haley watches don't seem to be listed. The best we can do is to ask you to post some pictures of your watch so that people here can suggest a proper description of it. Then, you would have to go looking for the value of watches with similar descriptions.

Gook luck,
Kent

[Kent]

James provided pictures of his watch, see below.

[Tom McIntyre]

If James is having trouble looking it up, it is a Swiss watch made to look like an English watch for the continental market. The date is likely close to 1800. The champleve dial and other work can be very confusing on these.

I believe David Penney posted an analysis on them within the past year.

[Oliver Mundy]

To me it looks older; by 1800 watches, European as well as English, tended to be larger and somewhat shallower in body, and the bow (the stirrup-shaped bit hinged to the stem) would probably have had tubular finials rather than the round knobs seen here. The date 1730, unaccompanied as it is by any name or initials, looks rather fishy, but 1750 or so seems possible. There is apparently a hallmark on the pendant; one element of this should be a single letter of the alphabet within a shield, and if this is legible (or if there is a larger and clearer version inside the inner case) it would give an exact date, for the case at least, since the letter was changed every year. Is there any chance of a closer view of any such marks?

I do agree with Tom about the Swiss origin; the main clue to this is that the cock (the fancy cover over the balance-wheel) is led to the backplate by two screws on opposite sides, whereas an English watch would have had a single wedge-shaped ‘foot’ with one (larger) screw passing through it. (Admittedly the Swiss sometimes imitated even this feature; to be really certain one has to look also at the quality of the workmanship and the colour of the gilding - Swiss gilding is often rather pallid - and these points cannot safely be judged from a photograph.)

[Lionel]

The pillars look unusual - pentagonal or hexagonal (again, suggesting continental origin), with what look like fancy galleries. The Tompion regulator disc is also unusual. To me, the pendant looks odd. The lower part that connects to the case looks like it might be original. If so, there is no reason why the watch couldn't be as old as the date inscribed on the back. The top part of the pendant with the hallmark looks clunky and out-of-place - a later replacement, perhaps. If so, the hallmark there cannot be taken as an indication of the date of the entire watch.

[Ralph]

IMHO,

It looks more Dutch to me. I usually think of the Swiss cock, as being simlar similar to the French, at least in this period....

Does the case have an English hallmark?

Mid 18th century.

Cheers, Ralph

[Tom McIntyre]

Hi Ralph,

The point of David's earlier post was that the so called "Dutch Fakes" were really made in Switzerland. Sort of like a double deception.

If the customer did not believe it was an English watch, you could try to convince them it was contracted for in the Netherlands by an English firm. I don't know why this would have been useful, but I suspect the Swiss had an image problem at the time.

[Ralph]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the heads up.....I've got to read the books I buy. :smile:

I reviewed T&HoTSW and David's posts. I'm in agreement with youse guys. :wink:

Reviewing the Jaquet/Chapuis book, I saw some other interesting things, that I have to go back and read.

Here to learn....

Thanks, Ralph

[Frank Menez]

This watch has all the features you would exspect to see on a Continental made movement.
Several of the features have been mentioned. In addition I see one other-

The Regulator disc has single digits instead of double digits you would find on most English watches. The single digit on continental watches is not unusual.

There is a Thomas Haley listed as being on Oxford St London in 1781

I would like to see the Hallmarks on the case.

Frank Menez
15520

[Ralph]

In the T&HoTSW, Jaquet and Chapuis advance some ideas about masterpieces, in the form of alarm watches. One of the examples, plate 24, is a watch by Lazare Arlaud. It looks like he made more than one "masterpiece"??

Arlaud Oignon (http://www.astro5.com/fpriv/Oignon/)

Cheers, Ralph