Can anyone help identify this Baume chronograph?

[deeds]

I have just acquired an old chronograph and would love some information on it. On the

workings it is engraved BAUME and on the covers are: 925 in a oval; a funny U in an circle

which is surrounded by an oval shape that is segmented into four; STERLING SILVER; AB in a

rectangle with rounded corners; SWISS; lower case n in a rounded cornered square, the bottom

of the box isn't straight but has 3 semicircles (like the bottom of a curtin);and the

number 133267.
It is also a stopwatch with 2 hands and 2 seperate buttons. The time adjustment uses a

button to the left of the winder. The watch repairer said that the works were all handmade.
Hope that the two photos help.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, many thanks. http://photos27.flickr.com/35319305_bfa98b42cf_o.jpg http://photos31.flickr.com/35319304_d172cc5546_o.jpg

[deeds]

I have just acquired an old chronograph and would love some information on it. On the

workings it is engraved BAUME and on the covers are: 925 in a oval; a funny U in an circle

which is surrounded by an oval shape that is segmented into four; STERLING SILVER; AB in a

rectangle with rounded corners; SWISS; lower case n in a rounded cornered square, the bottom

of the box isn't straight but has 3 semicircles (like the bottom of a curtin);and the

number 133267.
It is also a stopwatch with 2 hands and 2 seperate buttons. The time adjustment uses a

button to the left of the winder. The watch repairer said that the works were all handmade.
Hope that the two photos help.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, many thanks. http://photos27.flickr.com/35319305_bfa98b42cf_o.jpg http://photos31.flickr.com/35319304_d172cc5546_o.jpg

[Mikrolisk]

Hi Deeds,

This is a nice swiss watch from the company that is today known as "Baume & Mercier".

A little bit of history:
1830 Louis Victor and Pierre-Joseph-Celestin Baume found the "Frierres Baume" watchmaking house in the village of Les Bois, in the Swiss Juro mountains.
1851 Foundation of Baume Brothers in London.
1918 William Baume and Paul Mercier enter into partnership (becoming today's Baume and Mercier Watch Company).
1921 The brand is awarded the Poincon de Geneve (Geneve hallmark):
http://www.horlogerie-suisse.com/Images/geneve.png


Well, rather less information, but..

Andreas

[Jeff Hess]

And it is a split!

Split seconds hunters are not all that common!

Nice!

Jeff Hess

[doug sinclair]

Deeds,

The funny "U" mark you refer to is an import mark, applied to precious metal items produced outside Great Britain, but for import INTO Great Britain, for re-sale. This mark is most often accompanied by the usual British marks such as hallmark, standard mark, date letter, duty mark, and trade mark of the case maker or importer.

[deeds]

Thank you very much for your help.
One question: What did you mean about being a split?
I sent a copy of my information to Baume & Mercier seeking some help but it is taking forever.
At least now I have a start.
Is there any books or website that could help me decipher all the markings on the watch?

[deeds]

One other thing.
If the company was awarded the Poincon de Geneve in 1921 and my watch doesn't have that mark, does that mean my watch was made before 1921?

[doug sinclair]

Deeds,

I think another name for your chronograph is a "ratrapante" (sp?) which means it has two large sweep seconds hands which travel as one until a button is pushed. One stops, the other carries on. Press a button and the stopped one catches up to the moving one. This allows for things like timing a relay race wher laps are timed, or a horse race where you need the times of the first and second (and maybe more) place finisher. The auxiliary seconds hand doesn't show in the picture, but perhaps it is not there. Either that or your watch has been incorrectly called a "split" timer.

I notice that your watch is "pin set", so it likely does date to a time prior to 1921. The mark you refer to is often called the "Geneva Seal".

[deeds]

There are 2 large second sweeps on my watch, one black and one gold.
Excuse my ignorance (I'm very new to the joys of pocket watches, although I've admired them for as long as I can remember), but what is a "pin set"

[Jeff Hess]

Hi,
yes the Swiss use the term "rattrapante". Here in America it has alway been "split seconds chronograph".
Rattrapante, ("catching up", the literal translation) or a split simply means that you can time two things at once as you have two buttons that control two different sweep hands. And when done timing one event that hand "catches up" with the other. jeff hess

[mch]

Hello,

So, this thing is complete and in beautiful condition. You have started watches at an excellent level, many of us would be happy with this. Keep your fingers out of this one.

A few quick tips for this kind of item. No touching the movement. Do not breathe into the movement, and keep mouth closed (no talking) over the movement; a bit of saliva would damage steel and ruin a balance spring. When examining a watch, hold it low over a table; no sense giving it the distance to the floor.

This appears to be an open face movement in a hunting case, with a modified dial to make good appearances. Succeeds well. Nice catch.

Mike

[doug sinclair]

Deeds,

"Pin set" refers to the button on the edge of the watch case near the 11 that is surmounted by a "notch" in a bolster. You have to press that button down (with a finger nail, or a similar impliment of your choice), first, then turn the crown (winder) to move the hands.

[deeds]

Thank you very much for your help and enthusiasm and help. It is really nice to see so much passion in a forum. Thank you also for the advice for handling pocket watches, I didn't realise just how sensitive they are.

[deeds]

I was just looking at my watch again (can't seem to keep my hands off it!) and inside the back cover I noticed the following:

JMD
813 T 124
614 T 509
315 T 310

It could be 224 or 824.

It is very faint, otherwise I would have seen it earlier.

Does that mean anything to anyone?

[doug sinclair]

deeds,

If those marks are small and hand-scribed, I'd say they are marks left by a repair person.

[deeds]

They are, many thanks. Why would a watch repairer mark a watch like that?

[Tom McIntyre]

The marks allow the repairman to refer to his record book or card file to determine what work was done on the watch.

By the way, one application of the split hand is to time the "splits" of a horse race. As the horse passes the quarter, half, etc. the split hand is arrested and the time noted and then the split hand is resynchronized with the main sweep hand to allow timing the next split.

[deeds]

Thank you for all your help.
Baume and Mercier have gotten back to me. they want me to send the watch to them to be, in their words, "expertised by a professional watchmaker".
I know that you don't do valuations here, but can I ask this - They want to offer me AU$8,000 for the watch.
My questions are:
Should I send the watch to them?
How do I get a realistic valuation of the watch?
I mean, if the company is willing to offer that much, what is it really worth?
My main problem is that I live Northern New South Wales, at least 5+ hours from the nearest major city (Brisbane). I don't think there are many people living around he that could assist me.

[Barry Parker]

Hi Deeds,

On the Baume & Mercier web site at;

http://www.baume-et-mercier.com/e/histoire/prix_01_e.aspx

There is a link to "Prestigious Prizes"

This scrolls continuously and there is a mention that says;
"1887.. A split seconds chronograph obtains the highest score of 85.1 points out of 100"

I don't know if your watch has anything to do with that reference, but perhaps your particular watch is more important to Baume than you may imagine ?

Many Swiss watch companies now maintain their own company museums and buy back pieces of their history whenever they can.

The fact that they have made you an offer, without having the watch in hand, would indicate that they would really like to have this particular piece back.

In my opinion, Baume know exactly what you have already and you would need to consider the possibility that a better offer could possibly come if they were allowed to actually inspect the watch in person.

How you proceed in negotiating with the company is up to you.

Regards, Barry Parker