English fusee identification

[RichG]

I'm a newbie to pocket watches, so bear with me please. I recently acquired this watch and am trying to find information about the maker. It appears to read Daintrey(?) in script. #705, London. The word London is bold. The movement measures about 1 5/16 inches across the back plate and is about 5/8 inches thick. Through what research I have done so far it has a pierced balance cock that is held on by one screw. Egyptian pillars and another scrolled ornament. I believe that it is fire gilded. I'm trying to find information about the maker and some history. It is pair cased and the outer case is about 2 inches across. I have included some pictures, but they are not very good quality. I'll try to get some better ones. Would appreciate any help with this watch.
Thanks, Rich
NAWCC #0157382


<br>http://my.core.com/~rlgreen/watch1.jpg
<br>http://my.core.com/~rlgreen/watch2.jpg

[RichG]

I'm a newbie to pocket watches, so bear with me please. I recently acquired this watch and am trying to find information about the maker. It appears to read Daintrey(?) in script. #705, London. The word London is bold. The movement measures about 1 5/16 inches across the back plate and is about 5/8 inches thick. Through what research I have done so far it has a pierced balance cock that is held on by one screw. Egyptian pillars and another scrolled ornament. I believe that it is fire gilded. I'm trying to find information about the maker and some history. It is pair cased and the outer case is about 2 inches across. I have included some pictures, but they are not very good quality. I'll try to get some better ones. Would appreciate any help with this watch.
Thanks, Rich
NAWCC #0157382


<br>http://my.core.com/~rlgreen/watch1.jpg
<br>http://my.core.com/~rlgreen/watch2.jpg

[RichG]

Retry on those pictures :wink:

http://my.core.com/~rlgreen/watch1.jpg
http://my.core.com/~rlgreen/watch2.jpg

[Frank Menez]

Watchmakers & Clockmakers of the World by Baille--

Daintry London before 1773 The Hall Marks on the case may tell us more.

Frank Menez

[Lionel]

Style of balance cock suggests 1720s to 1740s.

Those pillars are square balluster.

The arcaded minute track on the dial, and the fancy hands raise a whole heap of controversy, if they are original to watch:

Watch may be a continental fake of an English watch

Watch may be English but produced for a continental market

Nice watch though.

[RichG]

Thanks Frank and Lionel for the info. Until I came across this watch I hadn't seen a english fusee close-up. All the information that I have got so far is from Schugarts book and what I came across on this message board, so when I tell you that I know any :biggrin:thing about them, believe me, I DON"T. It is very interesting and I've spent a considerable amount of time researching. I only wish that I had the capabilities to take clearer pictures.
I also wondered about the hands and face. The case shows considerable wear and the hallmarks on the inside of the inner case are hard to deciper. It appears (to me anyway) that the inner case had some dents in it and whoever tried to smooth them out also damaged the hallmarks. But they are there, I'm just having a time making them out. Anyway, thanks for your input and i will continue to research. :biggrin:
Rich

[David Penney]

Your watch is of the type that dates from the second half of the 18th centry, and is almost certainly of strong if not 100% Swiss origin. Made to look as attractive as possible with stamped repousse case, and fancy enamel dial and hands, the quality is such that it could be sold for much less than the usual top quality London made items.

Many such watches were made for sale in the Dutch and northern German markets where 'London' watches commanded a premium price. Often called "Dutch Fakes" I have yet to see a Duth made example. Swiss made, they should perhaps be called "Dutch Market Fakes," or more properly "Swiss Fakes." However, such watches were also retailed throughout Britain, some even with the 'arcaded minute track' as seen on this watch and more commonly associated with the Duth market.

With differing qualities and styles of case and movement, depending where they were to be sold, the movement of this watch is of typically English taste, with a balance-cock rather than a balance-bridge.

For more information, refer to 'Technique and History of the Swiss Watch...' by Eugene Jaquet and Alfred Chapuis, particularly plates 55 and 71, though the authors chose not to discuss the ethics of misrepresentation.

David Penney
antiquarian horologist & horological consultant

www.antiquewatchstore.com (http://www.antiquewatchstore.com)

[RichG]

David,
Thanks for the info. Very interesting. Now I have a 200 plus year old fake. I'll keep this info with the watch. It will make for some interesting conversation.
I suppose I should do the proper thing and take it outback bury it. :biggrin:
Rich

[David Penney]

Rich, the watch is not a fake. It is a fairly well made watch of the period, over 200 years old, and should be treasured. It is only the use of 'London' and perhaps the name that can rightly be termed a fake.

What is more, the story of how the Swiss mechanical watch industry came to rule the world on the back of centuries of such acvtivities is most interesting, the true story of which has yet to be told.

Don't dislike the watch. Every collection of European watches should contain at least one example as good as yours.

David Penney
antiquarian horologist & horological consultant

www.antiquewatchstore.com (http://www.antiquewatchstore.com)

[RichG]

David,
I don't dislike the watch nor do I have any intentions of getting rid of it. I have it proudly displayed in my small collection. As I stated before, I'm new at watch collecting and know very little about them. My focus being American watches. I really kind of stumbled upon it and I had never seen a watch like this. I bought it on a hunch for a very reasonable sum. I spent a considerable amount of time researching just to figure out what it was. I'm really fascinated by the workmanship and to think that it was probably all done by hand!!!
I really do cherish it. I use the term "fake" in humour. I want to find out more about it and I will be trying to locate the book that you mentioned in your previous post.
Thank you so much for your insight and information.
Rich