Illinois watch

[woodtick]

I have a old Illinois pocket watch that says it is a 17 jewell Ne enah Special. The book does not list this watch. It does say that it is made as Illinois watch compay. Any Help?

[woodtick]

I have a old Illinois pocket watch that says it is a 17 jewell Ne enah Special. The book does not list this watch. It does say that it is made as Illinois watch compay. Any Help?

[Kent]

woodtick:

You'll have to give us a little more information. What is the serial number on the movement? What size is it? Is it a hunting-case or open-face watch? Does it wind at the 12 o'clock or 3 o'clock position?

[woodtick]

The ser. # is 1284300. IT is a 18s and it is lever set. 12:00 wind. The lettering on the watch is real choppy, not smooth like most illinois watches. Much like the writing on the watch in the complete watch book page 272. The upper left watch. 2005 edition. Thanks Bob

[Kent]

Hi woodtick:

Information about Illinois watches may be found in "American Pocket Watches Vol. 2, Illinois Watch Co., Encyclopedia and Price Guide," William Meggers, Jr. & Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com), Kansas City, MO, 1985 (still in print), and in Russell W Snyder's Illinois Data Base CD (http://nawcc-mb.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/4316035461/m/2401056421/r/8541060521#8541060521). Then, there are Oldwatch.com's Illinois Production Date Chart (http://www.oldwatch.com/Illinoisdate.html) and the PocketWatchSite's Illinois Date Table (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/illinoisserials.html) which are an online means for determining the approximate production date of Illinois pocket watches. In general, we think of serial number lists (not just for Illinois, but for other watch manufacturers as well) to only be accurate within a year or two at best, and recognize that there are numerous exceptions wherein which the dates may be off as much as 3 years or more.

Looking it up in the above mentioned data base, this was taken from a run of a grade No. 64 movements. As an Illinois labeled watch, these were 15-jewel movements, adjusted to temperature, positions, and isochronism, built in about 1895. As a contract movement, this was apparently specified by the retailer (or offered to the retailer by the Illinios salesman) to be upjeweled to 17-jewel.

It seems that once a watch is recognized as a special order, or private label, watch, it doesn't really matter from which run/grade it was drawn. The only thing that matters is what was contracted for by the buyer. Its only for convenience (i.e., production efficiency) that private label movements for higher grade watches are taken from runs of high grade watches, thus minimizing the task of meeting special order requirements. Although, in general, the finish and adjustment of a private label watch is probably the same as that of the grade of the run from which it was taken, until one sees the retailer's description of the watch, it is indeterminate whether its description matches that of the factory run from which it was drawn. Lack of actual grade identification and indeterminate adjustment are probably the key reasons why private label watches were eventually prohibited in railroad time service. A classic example of differences from the factory grade are the earlier Waltham Canadian Pacific Railway model 1883s. They were pulled from runs of 15-jewel No. 25, No. 35 and Appleton, Tracy & Co. grades, but all of the Canadian Pacific Railway model 1883s are 17-jewel watches, the exact adjustment of which is indeterminate (although probably as good as, or better then, the grade of the runs from which they were drawn).

I'm not sure what book you use, but the hunting-case version of this grade No. 64 movement, labeled "Neenah Special," is listed in “American Pocket Watches Beginning to End...1830-1980, Identification and Price Guide,” Roy Ehrhardt & William Meggers, Jr., Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com), Kansas City, MO, 1987 (commonly referred to as “The Gold Book” - still in print), but no information is given about the retailer who contracted it.

Good luck,

[woodtick]

Thanks for the reply, it is a strange watch. I do happen to have a Canadian Pacific Railroad watch in the 1892 model. It is also a 17 jewel watch. Now that 92 movement is a hansom movement for sure. Again Thanks,

Bob