Elgin 16S Veritas: What's the right case?

[Bob Sharp]

Wisdom from the Elgin side of the audience is sought. I am vaguely aware that some 16-size Elgin Veritas models came in factory marked cases (at least, I think I know this). The question is, which models would/should be cased in marked cases? Conversely, which models might reasonably be found in non-marked cases? I realize that case-switching over the years will have wrought havoc on the originality of many/most watches found today, but I'd like to determine what I should look for when shopping for a 21 or 23 jewel Veritas model. Thanks in advance for any and all assistance.

[Bob Sharp]

Wisdom from the Elgin side of the audience is sought. I am vaguely aware that some 16-size Elgin Veritas models came in factory marked cases (at least, I think I know this). The question is, which models would/should be cased in marked cases? Conversely, which models might reasonably be found in non-marked cases? I realize that case-switching over the years will have wrought havoc on the originality of many/most watches found today, but I'd like to determine what I should look for when shopping for a 21 or 23 jewel Veritas model. Thanks in advance for any and all assistance.

[Jon Hanson]

Hi Bob,

I'll be happy to scan some Veritas watches in original cases for you later in the week.

Jon

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Jon Hanson, nawcc#8801
President and moderator chapter 149

[Kent]

Bob:

It was mostly the 18-size Veritas MODELS (which include the 3/4 plate Father Time and B.W. Raymond grades) that were offered in factory-signed cases. There are a few 16-size cases as well, but both size cases are somewhat uncommon. Almost all of the 16 and 18 size Veritas watches were sold as movements only, to be cased by the retailer at the time of sale. The gold-filled cases were signed "Keystone J.Boss - Veritas Model - E.N.W.CO." Silveroid cased watches were also sold and the cases were signed in a similar fashion. See the April 2000 NAWCC Bulletin, page 222 for a picture.

In overall appearance, the case had a high stem with a french bow. An example is pictured in A 1909 Ad (http://www.midwestcs.com/elgin/pictures/elgin_ads/1909/scaled_images/s_49_dial.jpg) on Wayne Schlitt's Elgin website.

Kent :smile:

[This message has been edited by Kent (edited 04-09-2002).]

[Bob Sharp]

Thank you, Jon, for your offer of images. And thanks, Kent for the clarification and direction to Wayne's site. I missed this reference when I looked over the site prior ot posing my question.

So, is it reasonable to assume that a 16-size Veritas in a non-signed, but age-appropriate case of good quality might be original (or to original intent)?

[Kent]

Bob:

Its more than reasonable, its highly likely that it won't be in an Elgin signed case. Page E4 of the 1917 Oskamp-Nolting Catalog (http://www.midwestcs.com/elgin/pictures/sales_catalogs/1917_Oskamp-Nolting/index.html) shows the availablity of Veritas movements.

Kent

[Kent]

Wayne:

Check out page E3 of the 1917 Oskamp-Nolting Catalog (http://www.midwestcs.com/elgin/pictures/sales_catalogs/1917_Oskamp-Nolting/index.html) on that great Elgin website.

Oh, cased Veritas model watches are also offered in the 49 Dial Ad (http://www.midwestcs.com/elgin/pictures/elgin_ads/1909/index.html).

Kent :smile:

[This message has been edited by Kent (edited 04-09-2002).]

[terry hall]

In Ehrhardt's 1980 Price Indicator there is a 16 s Veritas grade 453 shown in a wooden box. The inside of the cover is gold leaf stenciled "VERITAS". This is on page 98.

The picture below it give the movment serial # 24,217,533 I have to assume they go together, as there is nothing in the caption to indicate otherwise.

If factory boxed, would it be factory cased also?

[don't have a scanner to post it]

[Kent]

Guys:

I didn't mention it before, but I have a 16-size Veritas in a "Veritas Model - E.N.W.CO" swing ring case and in a wood box with "Veritas" on the upper cloth liner. The case is inscribed "John T. Logan From Screw Dep't Elgin Nat'l Watch Co Oct. 10th 1912"

Its a shame that the Veritas movement is a grade No. 270 and that there are other screw marks in the case. That's why I didn't mention it before.

Kent