Jacksons of London - 19th Century

[jacksonfamily]

Hi there,

As you can tell, I'm brand new so please excuse me if I make a mistake.

I'm researching my family history. I'm a descendent of the Jackson family who were watch case makers in London (principally Islington/Finsbury area) from 1794 onwards. I have noticed on this board that people are very complimentary of Priestley's book 'Watch Case Makers of England 1720-1920' and its contents. As I read it contains a register naturally I'm curious to know if any of my Jackson's are listed since I know nothing of their professional lives outside of census data.

Could anyone tell me if this would be a book which may tell me if my family members would be listed and what trademarks, etc they may have employed?

Thank you

Jackson Girl

[jacksonfamily]

Hi there,

As you can tell, I'm brand new so please excuse me if I make a mistake.

I'm researching my family history. I'm a descendent of the Jackson family who were watch case makers in London (principally Islington/Finsbury area) from 1794 onwards. I have noticed on this board that people are very complimentary of Priestley's book 'Watch Case Makers of England 1720-1920' and its contents. As I read it contains a register naturally I'm curious to know if any of my Jackson's are listed since I know nothing of their professional lives outside of census data.

Could anyone tell me if this would be a book which may tell me if my family members would be listed and what trademarks, etc they may have employed?

Thank you

Jackson Girl

[Dr. Jon]

Priestley's book is what there is.

Its index has no entry for Jackson. He has all the marks he could find and he has a lot. They are alphabetized by the first initial. If you get the book you will have to work through the marks. It has a lot of information about the trade and covers a few in depth so you will learn a lot about the trade from the book.

The book will probably cost you less than the postage to New Zealand and is a great book in itself.

[Jerry Matthews]

Hello Jackson girl,

Priestley lists several Jacksons who were recognised by the London assay office. They are listed in alphabetical order by the initials, with the first name coming first so you have to skim through the list line-by-line. I have picked out quite a few. I don't know of course which might have been your ancestors, and I may have missed one or two.

Here are the ones I found, in alphabetical order. The date given is the date they were entered in the register of the London office.

Charles, 5 President Street East, King's Square, St. Lukes, Sep 1863

Henry, 6 King, Clerkenwell, later 72 Compton St, Clerkenwell, Jul 1816

James, 2 Bridgwater St, Barbican, later 3 Church Row, St Lukes, Feb 1785

James & Son, 22 Richmond St, later 10 Norman St, St Lukes, Feb 1824

John, 33 Great Sutton St, Clerkenwell, later 10 Woodbridge St, Clerkenwell, Aug 1837

John, 38 Islington Rd, Oct 1799

John, 53 Gee St, Goswell St., Nov 1835

Joshua, 10 Bridgewater Gardens, later Ferns Alley, Aldersgate St, Oct 1795

Mary, 2 Bridgewater Gardens, Jan 1793 (yes, there were a few lady watch makers and watch case makers, often the surviving widow.)

William, 6 King St, Clerkenwell, Apr 1809

You asked about their trademarks. Case makers did not use trademarks as such, but their initials were included as part of the hallmark. You can distinguish one set of initials from the other (since there are a lot of J J's, for example) by the shape of the shield surrounding it, or in some cases no shield.

Hope this is helpful, but by all means try to get a copy of Priestley's book.

Regards from England,

Jerry

[D.H. Grace]

Jackson Girl,

Priestley lists only the most basic information, such as the initials found on the mark, a code letter for the mark style, a notation of the date the mark was entered at the Guildhall, and the address listed. It's a great source for identifying a maker's mark, but only for the first step of basic identification. That said, Priestley does list marks for James Jackson and Joshua Jackson.

If you are looking for more complete biographical information, the best source would be Arthur Grimwade's book, London Goldsmiths, 1697-1837: Their Marks & Lives (Faber & Faber: 3rd ed 1990). Grimwade has entries for both James and Joshua, containing biographical info, apprenticeship info, mark variations, etc.

The Grimwade entries are fairly lengthy, so I don't want to type them out and post them here since you may already have the book. I'll be happy to, though, if you don't.

Regards,

David Grace

[jacksonfamily]

Hi there Jerry and David,

You guys are so awesome!!!! I can't believe that you have managed to find something so fast! :biggrin: You have no idea what this means to me.

Jerry - I only have information on one branch of the Jackson family tree but I can recognise some from the addresses you have listed already. James Jackson of 2 Bridgwater St is the earliest watch case maker that has been located - he was an apothecary (like his father Joseph) but he apprenticed himself to William Burton, goldsmith in 1761. James & Son are also mine as will be Mary (didn't know the wife's name before :biggrin: so thanks very much for that). Joshua is more than likely to be mine and the rest are probably related.

This is so cool - I'm definitely ordering Priestley's book.

David - I'm so new at this game that it's taken me by surprise that there is more to the occupation of watch case making than just making them. So far I have not heard of Grimwade's book so I would love to see the entries but don't want to put you to any great trouble (but can you see my eyes light up? :smile:) I don't know what would be easier - scanning, typing, email, etc.

You guys have really made my day. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Are there any more resources I should consider?

Jackson Girl

[Jerry Matthews]

Hello again, you in New Zealand.

I think all of us who contribute to this message board are happy to share the bits of knowledge and information we have. But it is really a nice feeling when we can, as you put it, make somebody's day. Thanks for your comments. If there is anything I can search out for you over here, please get in touch.

Jerry

[jacksonfamily]

Hi Jerry,

Mate, you're on! I'll certainly be back. However you may be able to help me now even more. The Priestly book I'll be ordering is the soft copy from NAWCC covering 1720-1920 which notes it to be 216 pages long. Is this the same as the book you were referring to when looking up all of my people?

Is there any difference between the contents of the hard and soft cover versions re photos, drawings or listings, etc?

Please excuse me, I'm an auditor by trade and we're the sort that can be picky :biggrin:

Cheers

Jackson Girl

[D.H. Grace]

Jackson Girl,

I second Jerry's sentiment. Sharing with interested people is what makes this message board fun.

I don't know if there are any content differences between the hard and soft cover versions of Priestley's book. I have two copies of the soft cover only. Like Jerry, I think you'll find his information on the case making trade of interest.

Grimwade has a different focus, and might be valuable to you for genealogical reasons. Whereas Priestley has gathered together a treasure trove of casemakers marks, Grimwade looked at the entire gold and silversmithing trade and tried to tie all the known marks to as many biographical details as he could find. Thus, when he has a biography to tie to a mark it's great. Unfortunately, there aren't that many biographies for watchcase makers in his "Lives" section.

For James Jackson, mark number 1827 in Grimwade, Grimwade has the following information on p. 558:

"Possibly son of James Jackson, late of Bridgewater Gardens watchcasemaker deceased (Section VI), apprenticed to Joshua Jackson (q.v) as goldsmith 5 March 1794 on payment of L.7.14s of the charity of the Goldsmiths' Company. Freedom unrecorded. First mark entered as smallworker, 26 January 1805. Address: 3 Church Row, St. Luke's. Second mark, 14 February 1805. Moved to 10 Norman Street, St. Luke's, 30 April 1816. Third mark as watchcasemaker, 30 August 1832. Address: 10 'Norman Street', St. Luke's (Section VI).

Since James was apprenticed to a person sharing the Jackson surname, there's a chance that they were related. For that reason, I'll give you Joshua Jackson's entry too (Grimwade mark numbers 1427 & 1436) pp. 558-9:

"Son of Joseph Jackson of Roachford in the County of Sussex apothecary, apprenticed to Richard Bailey 5 May 1762 and turned over same day to S. Meriton (turner). Free, 7 June 1769. First mark entered as smallworker, 6 May 1779. Address: 44 Monkwell Street. Second mark, 1 July 1784. Address: 27 New Street, Cloth Fair. Third mark, 2 October 1787. Fourth mark, 14 January 1794. Probably identifiable with the watchcasemaker of the same name 1795-8 (Section V).

Hope that helps.

Regards,

David

[Jerry Matthews]

Jackson Girl -

Just to confirm that the book I was using to look up your people was Watch Case Makers of England A History and Reigster of Gold & Silver Watch Case Makers of England: 1720-1920, by Philip T. Priestley, 216pp. Soft cover.

Jerry

[jacksonfamily]

Hi David and Jerry,

I'm so sorry I haven't responded sooner. For two days now I've been trying but for some reason unable to access the MB. Finally I can actually say 'thank you!'

So here it is....

David - Woo hoo!!! You da man! Thanks so much for that unbelievably valuable info. James Jackson's info ties up with info I have from the Goldsmiths' Company that someone else in my family got in 1969. He's mine, he's all mine! Yay - more really valuable info to add. :biggrin: James is my fifth g-grandfather. And Joshua was his uncle so that makes him my fifth grand-uncle. It's all very complicated sometimes but that's not the point. They are both mine and I'm stoked that I have info on Joshua as I didn't know much about him for sure.

Jerry - Thank you so much for clarifying the reference to the Priestly book. I'm looking into a way of getting it through friends as NAWCC don't post outside the US (?!). However nothing is impossible.

You guys are both awesome. Thanks so very much.

Jackson Girl

[Jerry Matthews]

Are you sure they don't post outside the US? They posted mine to me at my UK address just a few months ago. Postage was more than the book, but well worth it.

[jacksonfamily]

Hi Jerry,

I'm positive that's what the site told me when I clicked on postage. No worries - I'll check again and if not then I have a plan :wink:

The chase is on! :smile:

JG