Hampden Info Request [Archive] - National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors Message Board

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amh

01-01-2007, 06:49 AM

Just received a Hampden New Railway pocket watch from my Dad for Christmas...looking for date and winding instructions. How much winding can be done without damaging the watch--it seems to take only a few hours to wind down with 3-4 turns, but I don't want to break it over winding it. Also, I pried open the back...it is New Railway, 17 Jewels, 673237 serial number...how old would that make it?...also the case has a number below the 14K gold assay mark--7490...what is that number referring to? Thanks for the help.

Kent

01-01-2007, 08:32 AM

Hi amh:

Welcome to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

The history of the Hampden Watch Co. goes back to the New York Watch Co., a successor to the Mozart Watch Co. The New York Watch Co. “... was in business from about 1866 to 1877, during which time it made a variety of different grades of movements. Its total production is estimated to be less than 60,000.” (quote from Greg Frauenhoff) A data base of New York serial numbers is available on Greg Frauenhoff’s Website (http://members.aol.com/gfrauen10/newyorkmainpage.html). After a reorganization, the firm became the Hampden Watch Co. in 1877.

Dueber-Hampden’s story is told in “From Springfield To Moscow: The Complete Dueber-Hampden Story," (Revised and enlarged successor to the 1954 Supplement to the NAWCC Bulletin) James W. Gibbs, Philadelphia, PA, 1986 (this should be available to members on loan by mail from the NAWCC Library & Research Center (http://www.nawcc.org/Library/library.htm)). Briefly, John C. Dueber (whose 1907 Obituary (http://members.aol.com/gfrauen10/celebrated.html) can be viewed on Greg Frauenhoff's website) established a watch case company in Newport, KY in the late 1870's. In the mid-to-late 1880's he purchased a controlling interest in the Hampden Watch Co. of Springfield, MA. Brief descriptions and list prices of Hampden movements at this time may be seen online in a 530 Kb scan of an 1887 Catalog Supplement (http://static.flickr.com/27/43570061_f24bcaeb4e_b.jpg). In 1888-1889, both operations were moved to a dual, attached set of factory buildings in Canton, OH (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/walt845/1889_Aug_Dueber_Factory_LR.jpg). The Dueber Watch Case Manufacturing Co. was a separate company from the Hampden Watch Co., although the ads used the Dueber-Hampden name and that name was (and still is) in common usage, and they were housed in adjacent buildings. It stayed that way until about 1925 when they formally combined. The companies continued in business, producing both watches and cases until falling sales in the mid-1920's led to receivership in 1927. The manufacturing equipment, parts on hand and work in progress were sold to Russia. Operations ceased in 1930 when the machinery was shipped to Russia. It is believed that all factory records either went with the equipment, or were destroyed, and there are no surviving records from which to match serial numbers of watches against models and grades. Nevertheless, Messrs. J. Hernick and R. Arnold, by collecting descriptions of Dueber-Hampden watches, with serial numbers, over a decade or more, were able to partially reconstruct the serial number vs. grade/description list. This was published as “The Hampden Watch Co.,” NAWCC Special Order Supplement #1, J. Hernick and R. Arnold, NAWCC, Columbia, PA, 1997 (may still available - see Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com)).

Basic information about a Dueber-Hampden watch may be obtained online using Henry Burgell's Interactive Hampden Serial Number Lookup Table (http://www.pocketwatchclub.org/db_resch/Hampden_1230.html). Since this is based upon a "recreated serial number list (the factory records were lost or destroyed), there may be occasional errors. Oldwatch.com's Hampden Production Date Chart (http://www.oldwatch.com/hampdendate.html), or the PocketWatchSite's Hampden Date Table (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/hampdenserials.html), are also online means for determining the very approximate production date of Hampden pocket watches. Use the serial number on the movement (the “works”), not the serial number on the case. In general, we think of serial number lists (not just for Hampden, but for other watch manufacturers as well) to only be accurate within a year or two at best, and recognize that there are numerous exceptions wherein which the dates may be off as much as 4 years or more.

Hampden New Railway serial number 673237 was probably built in late 1890 or early 1891. It was the second highest grade in Dueber-Hampden's line of 18-size watches at that time. You can see a descritpion and price of the movement, and where it fit in Dueber-Hampden's line at the bottom of page 191 of the 1896 Marshall Field Jewelry Catalog at:
www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1896_Marshall_Field/m_index.html

To view, go to the Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page at elginwatches.org, then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on 'Go'.

In 1891, Hampden created an advertising blitz for their new line of 17-jewel watches that lasted for years, of which, a typical ad can be seen at:
elginwatches.org/scans/non_elgin_ads/1891/m_12_hampden_17j_are_future.html
To view, go to the Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page at elginwatches.org, then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on 'Go'.
At this time, most high grade watches only had 15 jewels. Although higher-jeweled watches had been available for decades, Hampden was the first to mass produce and heavily promote 17-jewel watches, such as the Anchor Grade (http://photos16.flickr.com/20381094_79776a53ee_o.jpg). The 15-jewel Railway grade was discontinued and the Special Railway and New Railway (http://photos15.flickr.com/20386597_b1d130c3e7_o.jpg) grades were added. In pushing its line of 17-jewel watches, Hampden started a jewel count escalation that, over the next ten years, resulted in 21 and 23 jewel watches becoming commonplace and even led to the production of 24, 25 and 26 jewel watches.

Only a small percentage of American watches (or Swiss watches for the North American market) were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's (even then, uncased movements were furnished to the trade at least until the 1960's). Most watch companies just made movements (the "works") in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments.

Or, watches were sold by mail-order. Large outfits such as Sears, Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, or T. Eaton (in Canada), would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs. Smaller mail-order retailers would case the watches, typically in a 20-year gold filled case and offer it only that way, with the buyer not having a choice of cases.

Note: The grade of a case is the quality of the materials and work that went into it. Each case grade was offered in many different engraved designs.

A short history of American watch cases, within the online article "Decorative Aspects of American Horology," by Philip Poniz, can be viewed on The Antiquorum Magazine (http://www.antiquorum.com/vox/june_2002/poniz/poniz.htm) website.

If you can tell us more about (or post a picture of) the trade marks or names stamped into the inside back of the case, we may be able to tell you a little about the case material and its manufacturer. If its a Dueber case, it may not be solid gold. There are a number of instances wherein Dueber (and other companies') cases are marked 14K but are not solid, 14K gold. In these instances, the case is gold-filled (inner and outer layers of gold bonded to a thicker, center layer of composition metal, such as brass). One has to observe and understand the trade marks stamped into the case to determine from what metal the case is actually made. The lack of a trade mark usually means that it isn't solid gold.

You should be able to wind your watch quite a bit, right up to the point where the crown (winding knob) is very difficult to turn.

Ed Ueberall, of The Escapement (http://members.aol.com/stdwatch) has put together some notes on the Use And Care of Your Vintage Watch (http://k_singer.home.comcast.net/use_and_care_of_your_vintage_wat.htm) that should be helpful.

Service Frequency
If the watch is run continually, a cleaning and oiling is needed every 3-5 years. If you're only going to wear your watch occasionally, this ought to be done once at the onset and about every ten years thereafter. If you're not going to carry it (or run it), don't bother getting it serviced. Many of the watches in my collection (that aren't run) haven't been cleaned and oiled in 20 or 30 years or more.

I try to get the (railroad standard) watch that I carry on a daily basis serviced every two years because that's what railroad time service rules usually required. I recognize that this is considered extreme, or overkill, but nevertheless, I've carried my watch for over twenty five years and it is still in as good mechanical condition as when I got it, keeping accurate time within mere seconds per month.

You have a very nice watch,

amh

01-02-2007, 01:18 AM

Thanks Kent--

Wow--I certainly learned alot from your detailed response and web-based research links. Thanks much! While not bitten by the collecting bug, I really wanted to know as much about this family heirloom as I could, and this was perfect--I think I'll try to pull that "ON TOP" ad and print it out to display with the watch. I've also got a family picture with the watch worn in it from late 1897, so your serial number dating information reasonably confirms that timing.

I tried to post a photo of the markings on the case and ran into technical difficulty--so I'll just have to tell you what it says. The markings say "HOY & Co" then below it is a small crown logo and below that is three lines "WARRANTED" "14K" and "U.S.ASSAY" Below that is the stamped number "7490"

I have an additional care question that I'm sure that you can answer--the hinged door on the case to access the movement is very tight and hard to open--is there a special tool that should be used to do that or is just a small bladed knife appropriate? There is also some wear at that point on the case edge--should that be polished out or should some wear markings in that location be expected?

As for the exterior of the case, it is clean and polished, but not as brilliant as the interior surfaces--should that be professionally cleaned or is there some kind of gold polish that is safe to use?

Once again--thanks for all you have provided in my quest for knowledge on this piece of family history--now I can pass these details with the watch to future generations.

amh

Kent

01-02-2007, 11:52 AM

amh:

I'm not familiar with a case manufacturer named Hoy & Co. (not to be confused with the Roy Watch Case Co. (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-9/1217458/1901_Jun_26_Roy_LR.jpg), a well-known manufacturer of solid gold cases). However, although the the markings "14K" and "U.S. Assay" give the impression of it being a solid 14K gold case, use of the term "Warranted" is gernerally associated with a gold-filled case. On the other hand, the lack of a number of years for which it is warranted lends support to the thought that it is indeed solid gold.

A telling point is that "... some wear at that point on the case edge ..." That sure sounds like the gold of a gold-filled case is worn through to the underlying brass. I wouldn't polish the case until I learned whether or not it is solid gold. If the wear spots look like dull, tarnished brass, then it is gold-filled and any polishing you do will wear away more gold, exposing more brass that will tarnish.

Perhaps somebody who is familiar with Hoy & Co. can tell us about the company and their products. I'm beginning to suspect that it is an imitation of a Roy case.

The tool you want is called a Case Opener (http://www.ozdoba.net/swisswatch/pocket_howto.html#open). I use one occasionally, but I usually get my thumb-nail in the slot and slide it around the edge of the case, opening the back. Resist the urge to pry the back open with your nail, you'll probably just break the nail. However, I've known people who have opened cases for decades, without a problem, by using a very sharp knife. If you choose to do that, be very, very careful not to let it slip. You're better off not opening the back at all (as much as you'd like to view and show off the movement).

collin

01-02-2007, 02:23 PM

On page 35 (2004 edition)of Cooksey Shugart watch book, "ROY & Co. WARRANTED 14k U.S. ASSAY" appears as a legitimate solid gold mark. Perhaps the upper portion of the R on the case was poorly stamped.

amh

01-07-2007, 01:02 AM

Collin--

Mystery solved--what looked like an H to this novice eye, is in fact, an R. The top of the R on the stamp is not closed and it looked like a straight line on the upper right side of the R, but under magnification it has slight curvature and IS actually an "R." I would have not seen that unless someone pointed it out.

I understand from Tom McIntyre that the new website will have picture posting capability--once that is done, I'll post a few pix to let you see the trademark & case condition--the wear I spoke of to Kent was scratching from the tools used over time to get the back open to get to the movement. Based on this discussion and my own intuition regarding the background on the watch, I'm pretty confident that this is solid gold. I'd really like to those scratches from getting worse and also polish it out if possible. Anyone have any recommendations on gold care? That is the one piece that no one has answered yet. Having no other antique gold and no other watches to care for, I'd like some of your professional recs on this one.

Much thanks to all that helped...time to go to the bookstore to look through the references you provided me. Kent--that ad from 1891 printed out on yellow parchment really makes a nice display touch...thanks again for that.

amh