Help in an verge fusee

[pdaneu]

Hi for all,

I purchase some verge fusee pocket watches, any have the hallmarks and I dated them, others I didn't find informations about the watchmaker and the date.

In this of the bellow photo I think that it is from 1720 to 1760.

Can anybody help me to date this watch and the history of the watchmaker?

Tks,

Paulo


http://www.tempusvivendi.com.br/forum/vg5.jpg

[pdaneu]

Hi for all,

I purchase some verge fusee pocket watches, any have the hallmarks and I dated them, others I didn't find informations about the watchmaker and the date.

In this of the bellow photo I think that it is from 1720 to 1760.

Can anybody help me to date this watch and the history of the watchmaker?

Tks,

Paulo


http://www.tempusvivendi.com.br/forum/vg5.jpg

[m.bredewold]

Àprox 1690 /1730, so you guessed quite right.
I cannot seem to find the maker in my documentation.

[Jerry Matthews]

Hello Paulo. I can't find the maker in any of my books. It is an unusual spelling. Are there no hallmarks on the case?

Jerry

[pdaneu]

Mario,

Thanks for the information I see yours watches they are wonderful.
Your english is good, and I am Brazilian.

Regards,

Paulo

[pdaneu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jerry Matthews:
Hello Paulo. I can't find the maker in any of my books. It is an unusual spelling. Are there no hallmarks on the case?

Jerry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Jerry,

The case is made of silver, but no hallmarks and no marks of maintenance did by watchmakers.

In Brazil we tell that the marks of maintenance did by watchmakers is a tatoo.

Regards,

Paulo

[m.bredewold]

Jerry and Paulo,

I'm sure it has to be N.Adams instead of Adames.
In those day's not all the engravers were well educated.
This is to be seen quite often.

It could also be an early french/swiss forgery, to decieve people buying an english watch.
English watches were then wat the swiss watches are now today.

If you can post a photo of the side of the watch (with the contrate and crown wheel on it)we can be sure what we are dealing with.
On english watches the crown wheel is plugged in with a bras tapered stud.
On french and swiss watches it is fixed by a platform with 1 or two screws.

[Jerry Matthews]

Paulo and Mario,

There is a Nathaniel Adams listed as working in Stowmarket in 1784, but Stowmarket is in Suffolk and a long way (in those days) from London. Also 1784 seems a bit late for this watch. It is also very odd that there are no English hallmarks on the case. That causes me to suspect that the watch could be an early French or Swiss forgery.

[Lionel]

Hello fusee lovers!

The watch is not as early as 1690s and not as late as 1760s. Most likely dates from circa 1725. Style of balance-cock and signature, as well as the execution of the piercing and absence of hallmarks on the cases all suggest a circa mid/late 1720s date, and certainly not later than 1740s.

The watch looks to be very well realized in the English style, but some tell-tale features, when taken together, suggest a possible Swiss origin. The (possibly) misspelled name of the maker, the somewhat crude, "chunky" piercing of the table in comparison to more finely executed piercing in undoubtedly English productions, and the poorly engraved regulator disc with single-digits suggest that the watch is not of English manufacture.

Looking at the movement from the side may give some clues, but not necessarily. The Swiss were perfectly capable of (and did!) produce watches in the English style, right down to the brass tapered plug for the crown wheel.

Whatever the case may be, it is a very nice piece and should be taken care of and treated with reverence.

Kind regards,
Lionel

[pdaneu]

Hi friends,

I take more pictures, I think that they could help us.
The watch isn't working the chain is broken, in next week I will send it for an watchmaker that can restore it.
It is very difficult to find an watchmaker that work with fusee in Brazil.

Regards,

Paulo

http://www.tempusvivendi.com.br/forum/vg10.jpg

http://www.tempusvivendi.com.br/forum/vg11.jpg

http://www.tempusvivendi.com.br/forum/vg12.jpg

http://www.tempusvivendi.com.br/forum/vg13.jpg

http://www.tempusvivendi.com.br/forum/vg14.jpg

[m.bredewold]

Definately a Dutch forgery or a genuine english verge.

Also the balance wheel is made from steel, if it was a french/swiss forgery it would have been a balance wheel made of brass in most cases.
The crown wheel is plugged in as we can see on the second picture.

P.S. Ask your watchmaker to take a look under the dial.
I some cases there are initials stamped in the plate from the person that made the (unfinished) movement, so called ebauche.

[pdaneu]

Hi Mario,

Thanks for the information.
I forgot a thing, this watch has 3 cases, the last seems an tourtoise.
The photos are below.
I have more 6 verge that I can’t date or to find information about the watchmaker, I will take photos later and to ask for helps the friends.

Regards,

Paulo

http://www.tempusvivendi.com.br/forum/vg15.jpg

http://www.tempusvivendi.com.br/forum/vg16.jpg

[m.bredewold]

it's a shagreen covered case. (lizardskin)

[Oliver Mundy]

The absence of a hallmark is not decisive, since (according to Britten) hallmarks were not consistently applied to watch-cases until about 1740.

Oliver Mundy.