Stupid Dial Tricks:

[Robert M.]

I got my hands on a beautiful Seth Thomas Tambour recently with a spotless #124 movement and flawless case and decided to do the steel wool and wax thing to the case to polish her up a bit.After completing that I thought I'd take some Windex and clean the glass off I then decided to wipe off the dial(silvered dial with black numerals) with"how stupid is this?"windex and I know better than this.after a quick wipe I noticed the 6 and 7 had disappeared from the dial and what was left of them was on my rag.Brilliant Bob why don't you just wipe the dial down with acetone and get it over with.Well hello Mrs Smallwood but what I really,really want to know is there anyone else on this message board who has committed any ultimate clock repair sins even though with their experience they should have none better.I'd certainly feel better if I knew a few of you guys and gals suffered from a momentary lapse of judgement once in a while too.If you participated in that time honored tradition of disassembling your movement without letting down the mainsprings only to see your 2nd wheel go flying across the room at Mach Three we won't hold that against you because we've all done that.Right fellas!I am right aren't I?Anyway tell us your horror stories.Thank you.
Respectfully,Bob Fullerton

[Robert M.]

I got my hands on a beautiful Seth Thomas Tambour recently with a spotless #124 movement and flawless case and decided to do the steel wool and wax thing to the case to polish her up a bit.After completing that I thought I'd take some Windex and clean the glass off I then decided to wipe off the dial(silvered dial with black numerals) with"how stupid is this?"windex and I know better than this.after a quick wipe I noticed the 6 and 7 had disappeared from the dial and what was left of them was on my rag.Brilliant Bob why don't you just wipe the dial down with acetone and get it over with.Well hello Mrs Smallwood but what I really,really want to know is there anyone else on this message board who has committed any ultimate clock repair sins even though with their experience they should have none better.I'd certainly feel better if I knew a few of you guys and gals suffered from a momentary lapse of judgement once in a while too.If you participated in that time honored tradition of disassembling your movement without letting down the mainsprings only to see your 2nd wheel go flying across the room at Mach Three we won't hold that against you because we've all done that.Right fellas!I am right aren't I?Anyway tell us your horror stories.Thank you.
Respectfully,Bob Fullerton

[harold bain]

Bob, I think we all have had mainsprings get away at least once. How many of you have had parts disappear in the wash like a sock in the drier? I was cleaning a British tall case movement, went to put it back together, and no gathering pallet. Searched for hours, never did find it. Ended up making another one. Some days you wonder if you should have gotten out of bed. :rolleyes: By the way, Bob, if you put your Seth up high enough, no-one will see the missing 6 and 7.
Harold

[Robert M.]

Harold,why the hell didn't I think of that.Thanks for the suggestion. :smile:
Respectfully,Bob Fullerton

[bchaps]

About 4 years ago, I was prepping a late 18th Century waisted Tall Case clock to return to the client. I asked my wife to clean the door glass on the bonnet...when I returned, I saw her spraying the bonnet from about two feet with Windex. After shrieking and uttering a quick prayer hoping for no damage, I explained to my highly educated wife that this is NOT how one cleans a 200+ year old antique. Of course, now she's reluctant to touch any of my clocks...hmmmm, maybe that isn't so bad :wink:

Bill

[Scottie-TX]

Very recently. And YOU can benefit from this mistake I'll not make again. Vienna dial ( whut eltz?) Part of numeral "one" missing. I failed to notice the crack running thru it. I commenced to touch it up with a black feltwriter. In an instant, that ink found the crack - a sort of crescent crack that would someday become a missing chip - and like wildfire wicked into the crack and created a hideous cloud of black that now announced the crack in a black crescent track beneath the porcelain where removal would be impossible.

[Robert M.]

I'm feeling a little bit better now fellas,great stories.C'mon folks swallow your pride,come clean,tell us your horror stories. :smile:
Respectfully,Bob Fullerton

[neighmond]

I went to rub a ratty looking old wall clock down with alchohol and fine steel wool to take the scum off it-turns out the case was grained to look like something else and it looked like hell when I was done with it.

Chaz

[doug sinclair]

Bob,

I once serviced an American shelf clock which had a porecelain dial which appeared quite yellow. I figured, "smoker!" So when I finished the movement and had it on the test stand, I put the porcelain dial to soak in water and household cleaner. I soaked it for a while as I knew the porcelain would not be harmed by it. When I took the dial out of the cleaner, I was appalled! It was CELLULOID, or some other composite material, and it ABSORBED the water and cleaner, and looked like..........well...........! The word rhymes with well!

[Scottie-TX]

"NEIGH": "DOUG" How is it that you know what that looks like?

[doug sinclair]

Scottie,

?

[neighmond]

I used to work in hell. None of their clocks run on time.

Chaz

[RJSoftware]

Bob;

I think that what you did would have been what a normal reasonable person would do. Who was not aware of sensitivity of clock dials.

With that in mind, what do you do to protect a metal dial like that from people you might sell it to?

I was thinking transparent acrylic spray. Clean dial off with mild soap and water. Then spray with acrylic to protect it.

Wondering what measures you will take to restore the dial if any?

Oh and bout my stupid stunts.

Ok. Soldering over my lap and having hot ball of solder land in crotch.

Or picking up hot recently solderd item. Done it many many times and I still dont seem to learn...



RJ

[leadpot]

Have made every mistake that can be made - that's how you learn - right. Anyway I went to clean a porcelian dial from a small carriage clock, just wiped it with a damp rag, knowing it would not harm anything. When I finished the dial & numerals looked great but the name & San Fransico adress at the bottom of the dial was gone. You sure get that sick feeling.

Leadpot

[Scottie-TX]

Well fortunately, LP, I didn't do it but have learned to study the dial before cleaning - to determine whether chapter was put ONTO the porcelain surface or fired INTO the surface. Here's one of the former; Does your clock have a blank expression?
http://photos32.flickr.com/38345723_9523301142.jpg

[RJSoftware]

Looks like perfect candidate for smiley face.
RJ

[Robert M.]

I'll tell you one thing I've learned from my own experiences and those of my fellow clockies I ain't touching no more damn dials.I'll stick with movement rebuilding and clockcase refinishing.I can fabricate a broken part and I can remove bad Shellac with some alcohol but I'm afraid my artistic abilities are about a notch below the stick figure skill level.As far as dials are concerned its either staus quo or Mrs Smallwood for me.Maybe its me but everytime I even think about cleaning a dial I can almost see the numerals sliding off the face.Call it Horological Paranoia or whatever. :rolleyes:
Thank you all very much for your great stories.Mucho appreciated.
Respectfully,Bob Fullerton

[fume happy]

see my post a few weeks ago involving an old wag on the wall postman's clock, the coat of shellac over the dial, and attempts to remove said shellac with denatured. At least i didn't take the numerals *all* the way off... they're just a bit lighter now... :rolleyes:
at least it's my clock and not someone elses!

[Bryan Prindle]

Ok, I’ll fess up. I haven’t been working on clocks long enough to pull a real boner, but the same principle applies to antique stereo equipment.

On most of the old McIntosh equipment the chassis was chrome plate with black silk screened lettering for the various features. I got this equipment from my family estate and since I wasn’t interested in it, I decided to sell it. To sell it I really needed to “clean” of the many years of accumulated grunge. So, of course I went and got the Windex, sprayed a little on my rag, and preceded to start scrubbing. After a few seconds of wiping I started wondering, “Where’s that black paint coming from? AHHHH!! :eek: :frown: ”

Well it was my silk screening. In those ten or so seconds, I probably wiped off a thousand dollars worth of “condition of equipment and lettering.” Talk about feeling like a moron…

I should have use the proper cleaner.

So, I guess the moral of our stories is to keep the modern cleaners off our antiques.

Bryan

[Robert M.]

Bryan,after hearing all these Windex horror stories I'm beginning to think maybe that stuff ought to be classified as a controlled substance to prevent us from making total fools of ourselves and maybe save a few dials in the process. :wink:That was a great story though.We'll take any anecdote that gets the point across,stereos included.Welcome to the message board and thank you for posting.
Respectfully,Bob Fullerton

[Scottie-TX]

No brainer, "BP". When ya list it on eBay, you simply describe it as the "RARE" unlettered edition. To document this, simply remove the lettering from the owner's manual an' ARJAY'll pay a premium price for it and bend the tube shields to taste on arrival.

[tonyboy]

I had a dial with some slight discolouring and decided to put it in the ultrasonic cleaner.....:eek: I won't be doing that again........:(

[Thyme]

About 4 years ago, I was prepping a late 18th Century waisted Tall Case clock to return to the client. I asked my wife to clean the door glass on the bonnet...when I returned, I saw her spraying the bonnet from about two feet with Windex. After shrieking and uttering a quick prayer hoping for no damage, I explained to my highly educated wife that this is NOT how one cleans a 200+ year old antique. Of course, now she's reluctant to touch any of my clocks...hmmmm, maybe that isn't so bad :wink:

Bill

Among other things, I restore dials. Typically, I will lose some of the numerals in the cleaning part of the restoration process, but I always take detailed photos before beginning work so I can paint them back on.

I see no reason for a dire warning about using Windex to clean glass. I use it frequently and it won't harm glass at all. It's appropriate for that specific use - but NOT for spraying on other parts of the case.

(A note to the moderators: probably this dial discussion belongs in the case restoration section?)

[Chris]

I think the main problem with Windex isn't the chemical itself, but how we spray it. If you're like me, more is better. I think we forget that it's safer to wet a paper towel with cleaner and wipe the glass than it is to actually spray it on the glass.

When we spray it, it goes on the glass, on the case, on the lacquered parts, etc. Same thing with spray polish like Pledge. Spray it on the rag, not the item. This comes under the heading of "do as I say, not as I do" because I inevitably forget and get cleaner all over the place!

Stupid moves I've made:

1. Cleaning a New Haven 1920's dial with Windex. It made the beautiful iridescent blue numerals smear all over the pearly white background.

2. Tightening that screw or bending that part when you know you shouldn't. Yep, SNAP!!

3. Winding a mainspring into a barrel by hand and just knowing you're going to get a nice, crescent-shaped gouge in your thumb. Add to that the need to keep working with acetone, ammonia, Simple Green, etc., which always gets into the cut. Nice!!

[Dave B]

Even just water can create problems. I had a pretty little blue mirror Seth Thomas, with a nasty streak on the dial. Decided to eschew chemicals, and just wipe it with a damp rag. Now, you can just barely make out the Seth Thomas logo if you look at it in the correct light. Reminded me of the first time I "cleaned" a radio. I had a grand time figuring out which tube was which after I washed off the letters. Fortunately, I was able to get a copy of the Sam's PhotoFact page on it.

[Scottie-TX]

Yeah; Good ideer thyme. We down here now.
I feel your pain DAVE. I recall ever my first, an AK three color dial. After a few seconds under faucet - a piece of clear, circular glass. SHEESH.
On the bright side tho; If dial can survive water, POLIDENT works great to pull dirt out of cracks in porcelain dials.

[whcureton]

Bryan P. says it admirably ... Keep modern cleaners off your dials.

I had a similar experience recently as a newbie, with a celluloid dial on a 1930's wind-up movement I was using for balance wheel practice. I used Simple Green on the dial. Now I have a nice clean, clear piece of round celluloid. Doh!

My main recurring "problems" after nearly one year of working on clocks is the "missing parts" syndrome. If I ever find all those parts I've lost in the last 11 months I'll be able to build a new old clock ... kinda like that 57', 58',59' Cadillac Johnny Cash once sang about.
- Bill in northern California

[Thyme]

Even just water can create problems. I had a pretty little blue mirror Seth Thomas, with a nasty streak on the dial. Decided to eschew chemicals, and just wipe it with a damp rag. Now, you can just barely make out the Seth Thomas logo if you look at it in the correct light. Reminded me of the first time I "cleaned" a radio. I had a grand time figuring out which tube was which after I washed off the letters. Fortunately, I was able to get a copy of the Sam's PhotoFact page on it.

It isn't the water, it's the abrasion involved. I can remember responding to a thread here about this effect. As an experiment I decided to do a test on a silver stenciled door glass. The glass is on one of my own clocks and it is partially worn, so I used it as a guinea pig to test my theory. I tried wetting a Q-tip with plain water and tried "cleaning" the silver stencil with it to see what would happen - and found that even with light rubbing the silver began to come off.

Often when I need to clean off light smudges when I'm working on a dial that is in the process of restoration, I simply put some soap on one wet finger and very gently rub the small area to be cleaned, immediately rinsing at the same time. The other parts of the dial will remain unaffected, as water does not disturb the rest. After that I might blot the remaining excess water off with an absorbent towel and let it dry before continuing work on it.