18 size Hamilton "mystery"

[Alan Walker]

Let's see if any Hamilton experts out there can help me figure this one out. The watch in question is an 18 size, open face lever set movement SN 19835. According to all of the information that I've read, that places the watch in the SN range assigned to the 930s, which from what I understand were 16 jewel watches. However, the movement is marked as a 17 jewel watch, confirmed by my watchmaker who serviced it. What is this watch?

[terry hall]

Alan,
It is my understanding that the marked 17 movements were from two sources.
One, a watch that had been returned to Hamilton by the owner for repairs was upgraded to 17 jewels and remarked.

The other, there was an excess inventory of unsold movements that were upgraded to 17 jewels and marked before being shipped to the jobber.

I cannot cite my source for this, consider it here say.

Your movement is an 1897 vintage 930.

[Alan Walker]

That makes sense. I've some articles on file in my records that indicate that Hamilton dabbled in making some low jewel watch movements but then decided about 1897 not to make anything with less than 17 jewels. Thus the small numbers of low jewel Hamiltons and the odd upjeweled movements like this one I suppose. Any knowledge as to whether the upjeweled 930s would have been adjusted or not?

[doug sinclair]

Alan,

On another day at another time a similar question arose about grade # 35 Waltham 1883 watches being listed in the S# list as 15 jewels, when, in fact, some later versions of the grade 35 were 17 jewel movements. I received an e-mail from a contributor to this list named Keith who indicated to me that Waltham did this to some later models of the grade 35 movement (and perhaps others) in reaction to competition, particularly from Dueber Hampden. I would wonder if perhaps Hamilton had done the same thing with your 930?

It would seem to me that it would be difficult to "up-jewel" during a subsequent factory servicing, and re-engraving to reflect the higher jewel count. That is, unless the movement had been produced without the lower jewel content having been engraved on it when it left the factory the first time. Might they have changed the train bridge and recycled the serial number? Sounds like overkill to me. Compared to a 15-jewel grade 928, where would that 16th jewel have been placed? I wonder if that might be a clue?

Regards,
Doug S.

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[John Cote]

Alan,

I have one of these "Upgraded 930s" too. I have been told that many of these watches were returned to Hamilton by jobbers who couldn't sell them. Hamilton upgraded them to 17 jewels and either shipped them back or resold them.

This explanation makes sense, because I have seen about 5 of these watches and they are scattered around within the SN range.

From the low number of these watches I have seen, I have always thought they were somewhat scarce. Does anyone know how many 930s have a factory engraved "17 Jewels" on the movement?


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JohnCote
President, Indiana Chapter 18 - NAWCC

http://www.interstatetime.com

[Wes]

Mystery solved.
http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/mbimages/_a1%20002s.jpg (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/mbimages/_a1%20002.jpg)
http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/mbimages/_a1%20001s.jpg (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/mbimages/_a1%20001.jpg)
(sorry for the bad photos)

[terry hall]

Good enuff to tell what happened....

thanks Wes,
sorry Alan...

[HenryB]

I have 89743, upgraded 17J 930.

I have peeked under the bridge and the serials all match.

I always thought maybe this was upjeweled because it was the last run of 930's, when the 16 Jewels were not selling.

[HenryB]

Forgot in my previous post that 47828 is a 931 16 j upgraded to a 17 J. Barrel serial also matches.
Again a last run of the 931s.

[Wes]

I wonder what is the lowest known SN for an upjewelled 930/931.

[Fred Hansen]

Wes -

Would you like serial numbers on these if I can find a few?

Fred

[Don Dahlberg]

FWI, Hamilton records are very limited on the 930 and 931. There is no discussion of upgrading the movements in Lowell Halligan records. He actually says there is very little known about the movement.

Don

[IMHO]

Wes,

SN 33,175 came my way recently, which is upjeweled, marked 17 Jewels on the barrel bridge, and the sn's match.

Dave