Revisionist History of the Bunn Special?

[Fred Hansen]

All -

I ran across this while browsing the web today.
http://www.uiowa.edu/~humiowa/rd10-22.htm

Is ANYTHING in this story anywhere near correct? Is this story true of another watch that he may have confused with the Bunn Special? Or am I the confused one? http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Fred Hansen

[Kim Hill]

That story is one of the most horrible things I have ever read. I hope it is totally false. http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/eek.gif

[terry hall]

I remember a past thread on this particular article..... sickening....

[ckeithjohnson]

Maybe the author was confused with the "Infamous" "HUNN SPECIAL"

[John Cote]

Fred,

I posted a thread about this article about 2 years ago. I can't remember the whole deal, but I believe I emaild the guy and told him how wrong he was. I think I even talked to him on the phone. Anyway, I guess he didn't bother to change the article. The interesting part is that this article comes up pretty high on the list when you type "Bunn Special: into Google.

WHATCHAGONNADO???

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JohnCote
President, Indiana Chapter 18 - NAWCC
Member Chapter 149 (Member #105)
http://www.interstatetime.com

[Lindell V. Riddle]

Everyone,

Frankly, as one who collects and treasures Bunn Specials I find this ridiculous story highly offensive.

Clearly this story could not be in any way related to the legendary Illinois Bunn Specials due to the simple fact Hamilton after their purchase of Illinois found a READY RETAIL MARKET for every last one of them!

Is there any chance the so-called writer has somehow confused a history of the "Santa-Fe Special" marked watches which were indeed marketed by mail order and even sold on time payments? However I doubt that, and by the way even the reference to "new-fangled moving picture shows" is off the mark. By that time-frame the Motion Picture Industry was fully established and movie theaters were quite common across the United States.

What a sad and bizarre story! Even sadder, how many people actually accept and even repeat this tall tale? Perhaps our friend and Illinois expert John Cote is the man to refute it authoritatively on the internet. How about it John?


Lindell V. Riddle

NAWCC Life Member# 253-150074
Member of Chapters 10, 28, 37, 174, and NAWCC-***

<southbend@adelphia.net>

Phone: (440) 461-0167

[Steve Maddox]

That just goes to show how people in "presumed" positions of authority, occasionally have no clue what they're talking about.

In this case, the "Dean, Department Chair of Railroad Operations Technology, and Instructor of Railroad History at Western Iowa Tech Community College in Sioux City, Iowa," should have a BS in BS (and maybe a PHD for Piling it on Higher and Deeper!).



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Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

[John Cote]

I have sent Professor Daniels another email regarding this web page. I will let you all know if he responds.

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JohnCote
President, Indiana Chapter 18 - NAWCC
Member Chapter 149 (Member #105) http://www.interstatetime.com

[This message has been edited by John Cote (edited 10-03-2002).]

[mikem53]

"Maybe the author was confused with the "Infamous" "HUNN SPECIAL"

Thank you for the laugh.. Good one! :smile:


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NAWCC member #0156664

[John Cote]

Well, I just spoke to Professor Rudy Daniels, Retired. His email address at the college did not work, so I dug up his home phone number and called him.

He claims he had nothing to do with posting this page on the internet. He says it is an excerpt from a book he wrote, and that someone must have posted it without his knowledge.

I briefly went over the mistakes I found in this excerpt and told him that I would be glad to help him correct them. He said fine, but he would not give me his email address. He says he does not give it out to anyone, and insisted that I should mail him my research. I protested (nicely) that I couldn't put hyper-links in printed material, and that a lot of what I would refer to was on my website. I politely told him that not corresponding by email would make the process a lot harder for both of us, and that quite frankly, I didn't have time for it. He still would not give me his email address, so I told him that I was not interested in helping him, and that (with all due respect) his internet page and his book could continue to be out there in front of anybody who wanted to type "Bunn Special" into their search engine and read.

Oh well, it just goes to show what kind of crap there is out there on the internet and what crap there is in print too. My mom and dad told me many times, that you can't always believe something just because it is in print.

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JohnCote
President, Indiana Chapter 18 - NAWCC
Member Chapter 149 (Member #105)
http://www.interstatetime.com

[Charles Medsker]

After reading the link, how could one person get so many so-called "facts" wrong? Is this guy retired or retarded?

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Charles Medsker
Indianapolis, IN
NAWCC #54809
Member Indiana Chapter #18

[John Cote]

Kinda makes you wonder what the rest of his book is like!!!


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JohnCote
President, Indiana Chapter 18 - NAWCC
Member Chapter 149 (Member #105)
http://www.interstatetime.com

[Julian Smith]

I,too,sent an email to the address in the article.I think I ticked off someone named Criss Rossi.Anyway I let him know what I thought of the article.I don't have the facts and dates here at home, so I got Terry Hall to answer his letter.If Terry gets an answer maybe He will post it here.
J SAmith

[Andy Hamric]

Here is Rudolph Daniel's book on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0253337623/reviews/002-7818197-7437606#02533376233000

It would appear that he is more of a historian of Railroads than pocketwatches, but that doesn't excuse shoddy scholarship. Incidentally, being brand new to pocket watches, I remember running across this article and thinking it made for a good story. Forgive my ignorance, but how did Bunns get started? Could you direct me to a website? Thanks!

[Jeff Hess]

Sounds like the old bird just got a couple of wtch stories mixed up. Sounds like conflgration of Ball watches (making a standard using others movements) and Sear Roebuck (selling watches to "everyman" on time.

Oh well. Let s give him a chance to make some changes. Has anyone offered to help him take this off the net or to change the info?

Jeff

That was a pretty funny story though. I'm thinking about putting my own story on the net... "I invented pocket watches back in '04
(that's 1604 son!) and the first ones ran by mastadon breath. And then the railroads came and killed the mastodon off and we had to invent the mainspring. So after I invented electricity we started our own watch repair school as we could finally turn on the lights. And keep our Bunns warrm. And that is where Bunn comes in. So anyway..." sheesh.

[terry hall]

Here is Mr. Rossi's reply to Julian's inquiry
Dear Mr. Smith:

Please, educate me about the Bunn Special, if you are one of the people at the National Association of Watch and Clock collectors. I am indeed interested in your thoughts. I'm sure you are vexed from the tone of your short note, and you write that I spread nonsense about the subject which -- and here you are correct -- I know nothing. But I think your displeasure is misplaced. We provide a medium for thought, not the thought itself. Instead of shooting the messenger, let the messenger deliver your message (assuming it conforms to the editorial requirements of our program).

Sincerely,

Chris Rossi

Below is Mr. Rossi's reply to my inquiry.....


Mr. Hall:

We've received two messages regarding the Bunn Special article, written by Prof. Rudy Daniels at Western Iowa Tech Community College in Sioux City. If you have comments, please direct them to him.

Sincerely,

Chris Rossi


My message to Mr. Rossi

Mr Rossi,

By now I am sure you have been flooded with messages regarding your Bunn Special article on the web.
I could write most of this evening on Illinois watches, but......

May I suggest a couple of things......

Visit this site
http://www.nawcc.org/

A thread has been started on your subject matter....Please ignore any misintended jabs that one could take personally,
http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/Forum3/HTML/003572.html

and perform a search on Bunn Special on the forums there..... http://www.nawcc.org/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=intro

If you have a question, please ask it...... I and many others will be happy to help.


May I suggest an excellent resource on Illinois watches? It has an excellent history of Jacob Bunn and his watch company.

Volume 2
American Pocket Watches
Illinois Watch Company
Encyclopedia and Price guide
circa 1985

By
William Meggers [now deceased] and
Roy Ehrhardt

ISBN 0-91 3902-34-9

Sold through
The Heart of America Press

In Best Regards,


maybe one day it will get straightened out...

[alan goebes]

This story appears to be a transcript of an episode from an Iowa radio station program. If you click on "Back" at the end of the Bunn story, it takes you to the series' homepage. Scrolling down, I noticed that the episode broadcast on Dec 16, 2001, was also by Prof Daniels. Entitled "The Heist Heard Round the World," it describes what he says is was the world's first train robbery, executed by Jesse James in 1873. Except it wasn't--the Reno Gang pulled the first train robbery in 1866 in that wild west town of Seymour, Indiana. They pulled a second in 1867, and a third in 1868 (after which most of the gang was captured). Fed up with this nonsense, the good citizens of Indiana ultimately pulled them out of jail and lynched them. (The story is told at www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/7705/RenoGang.htm.) (http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/7705/RenoGang.htm.)) So I would say Prof Daniels is just not very careful about his history.

[Barry G]

Rudolph Daniels taught Russian studies at Loras College, Clarke College, and Dubuque University--all in Dubuque, Iowa--before moving to West Germany in 1974, where he taught English and French at a gymnasium. Returning to the United States, he began teaching at Morningside College in Sioux City, Iowa. Over the course of twenty-two years, Daniels became Department Chair of History and Political Science and also taught woodwinds and music literature classes. He served as an admissions interviewer and campus photographer and was named Faculty Person of the Year in 1985. Daniels also received two post-doctoral fellowships while at Morningside, allowing him to expand his research and teaching interests. In 1996, Daniels became Department Chair of the Behavioral Sciences at Western Iowa Tech Community College, where he began teaching history and other courses in Railroad Operations Technology. Trains across the Continent was developed as a textbook for his classes at WITCC.
[HR][HR]

Hmmm.... Maybe it was while he was serving as admissions interviewer and campus photographer that he gained his expertise in railroad history?

:wink:

Barry

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My Online Pocket Watch Collection (http://barrygoldberg.net/watches.htm)

[Tom McIntyre]

What concerns me most is that Dr. Daniels, by his cavalier disregard for scholarship, cheapens the value of advanced education. I tried to find out where he had gone to school by using google but was unucessful.

Apparently "Trains across the Continent: North American Railroad History", by Rudolph Daniels is regarded with some respect in the Midwest.

The most casual inquiry would have informed him that his story of Bunn was a fabrication and it leads one to doubt that he is capable of scholarship. Indeed if the origin of the story was an unfortunate tall tale told in an interview, he should have made every effort to squelch it rather than stonewall as he is apparently doing.

Thomas W. McIntyre, Ph.D., UCLA, 1965


[This message has been edited by Tom McIntyre (edited 10-05-2002).]