Staffs with oversized balance shoulders?

[BMW]

Seasons Greetings all.
Maybe it's just me, but I seem to find (and may have actually been guilty of creating one or two) a fair number of balance wheels that have had the hole enlarged by small fractions of millimeters by having them improperly removed over the years. Does anybody make staffs that have all standard dimensions with the exception of having a slightly oversized balance shoulder? If not, why the heck not?!! Doesn't it make sense? This way watchmakers wouldn't be forced to turn staffs from wire or modify more than one dimension in order to repair a great many watches. It would be well worth paying double the price of a standard sized staff IMO.
If nobody's done this before, I can't help but wonder why not? (I have at least 3 nicer grade pocket watches that relatively easily be returned to a running status if I could only find staffs such as these). Many forgotten watches would be transformed into runners in just slightly more time than an average re-staff. It seems so obvious. Comments are appreciated.
Cheers,
BMW

[BMW]

Seasons Greetings all.
Maybe it's just me, but I seem to find (and may have actually been guilty of creating one or two) a fair number of balance wheels that have had the hole enlarged by small fractions of millimeters by having them improperly removed over the years. Does anybody make staffs that have all standard dimensions with the exception of having a slightly oversized balance shoulder? If not, why the heck not?!! Doesn't it make sense? This way watchmakers wouldn't be forced to turn staffs from wire or modify more than one dimension in order to repair a great many watches. It would be well worth paying double the price of a standard sized staff IMO.
If nobody's done this before, I can't help but wonder why not? (I have at least 3 nicer grade pocket watches that relatively easily be returned to a running status if I could only find staffs such as these). Many forgotten watches would be transformed into runners in just slightly more time than an average re-staff. It seems so obvious. Comments are appreciated.
Cheers,
BMW

[doug sinclair]

Does anyone know what the procedure is to rebuild a damaged balance wheel so that it is back on center and will take a standard staff? I believe Henry Fried includes instructions in one of his books. Does anyone have that book? I think I would far sooner repair a wheel than to have to cut a new staff (which I have done many times). Some of the hand-made staffs I have seen look like they might have been made using a rasp and a pin vise and may have been made by the technician that jimmed the wheel up in the first place.

Regards,
Doug S.

[BMW]

Mike M.
I certainly agree with you about the best way to remove a staff. I just had my first successful removal after removing the balance hub on a lathe. It was rather nervewracking but I prevailed. Unfortunately it seems that someone else may have enlarged the hole before I got my hands on it.
I have tried my hand at making a staff and worked very hard on one before ruining one of the pivots. I did well on the roughing out but really didn't know how to finish it off. I plan on joining the AWI specifically so that I may attend their occasional lathe classes in the hope that I might improve these skills. I can see that lathe skill is one thing that separates the men from the boys in this craft. I live in Southern California and I know of no schools that teach such things therefore I must wait for the AWI, or some other teaching entity, and learn by doing. Good luck all.
BMW

[BMW]

Doug,
I found a technique discussed by de Carle in his book Practical Watch Repairing. If you have the book, it's on page 205. If you don't own it, I'll try to post the paragraph or two where it's described. Cheers.
Brian W.

[Tom McIntyre]

I don't know if the technique is well known or widely practiced, but several years ago, Paul Duggan gave a demonstration at a local meeting in Boston on turning balance staffs.

The technique involved using carbide graver to rough out and finish a balance staff from hardened stock. The advantage was that one got to a finished piece in essentially one set of operations instead of roughing out, hardening and polishing.

I have never made one of these myself, but they looked really good when Paul made them. Paul has since moved on to other interests, so I don't think he is around to make staffs.

I recently had a good watch repaired by a top London repairman and he had a very difficult time trying to make the balance round after it had been botched in a previous repair. It still retains a little wobble. I think if the cross arm has been twisted, this repair may be nearly impossible. :frown:

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Tom McIntyre
President, NAWCC Chapter 174
Pocket Horology Web (http://www.pocketwatch.org)
Tommy the JOAT's Web (http://www.mcintyre.com/McIntyre)

[doug sinclair]

I too use carbide gravers for staff work. However, I find with the usual pivotting steel available today that it seems to be hard only on the outside, and as you get into it, the steel is much softer. Does anone else share this experience? My view is that it might still be wise to re-temper a staff made from this modern pivoting steel just before doing the finishing. Opinions?

Regards,
Doug S.

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