Illinois PW Questions

[Kate N]

I just picked-up and Illinois OF lever-set PW on which, unfortunately, someone decided to "customize" the bridges by rubbing through the damaskeened plating (which I'm guessing is nickel plating.). The movement is marked ADJUSTED 17 JEWELS, Illinois Watch Co. Springfield and serial number is 3939714.
Can someone please tell me a bit more about this. I'm guessing that it is a 16 size and that when movements are referred to as nickel, they mean nickel plated--but I'm not certain of either.

Kate

[Kate N]

I just picked-up and Illinois OF lever-set PW on which, unfortunately, someone decided to "customize" the bridges by rubbing through the damaskeened plating (which I'm guessing is nickel plating.). The movement is marked ADJUSTED 17 JEWELS, Illinois Watch Co. Springfield and serial number is 3939714.
Can someone please tell me a bit more about this. I'm guessing that it is a 16 size and that when movements are referred to as nickel, they mean nickel plated--but I'm not certain of either.

Kate

[Tom McIntyre]

Nickel plates come in three flavors. Solid nickel is usually a yellowish color because of the alloying metals and gets a stronger yellow hue as it is exposed to air. These watches are very bright right after cleaning but dull over time.

Then there are brass plates that are nickel plated and can wear through over time and show yellow colors at various spots on the plates.

Finally there are the nickel plate over nickel movements that use pure nickel over the nickel alloy plates to get a very durable finish that stays bright over time.

Later Swiss watches are often actually rhodium plated rather than nickel plated over a white alloy material that is probably nickel brass, but I am not sure about the underlying Swiss material.

[Fred Hansen]

Hi Kate -

By serial number your watch would look up as an 18 size model 6 grade 89 movement, made in 1921. The model 6 grade 89 was a successful product with a little over 36,000 made by Illinois between 1899 and 1926.

These watches were found with a variety of damaskeen patterns, with some I believe being the last of the 2-tone 18 size watches Illinois made. You write that someone has rubbed the plates of your watch, but does any of the original damaskeen remain and can you post a photo of the movement?

Fred

[Kate N]

Many thanks for the swift, informative replies. Tom, thanks for explaining the various meanings of nickel plates.
Fred, thanks for the specifics on the movement.
It is unfortunate that the would-be artist ruined the plates, but the basic damaskeening is still visible. Nothing fancy, just a checkboard pattern, with a small bit of frilly-looking design at the edge. The "artist's" work are the vertical and horizontal brass strips.
Fortunately, the watch was ridiculously inexpensive.
Here's a pic:
Ilinois pic (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93196593@N00/255063003/)

[Kent]

Kate:

Congratulations on finding a nice tu-tone watch! I don't think that there's anything wrong with those plates - that's what it is supposed to look like. In fact, the screws, regulator and whipspring look like they are gilded. If so, that's what is referred to as gilt trim.

[Tom McIntyre]

Kate, I can't tell for sure from your picture, but it looks like it may be the original two tone finish. It is also possible that someone gold plated the center and then buffed the cross lines back in.

[Jon Hanson]

buffed? No way; looks original to me.

[Fred Hansen]

That is the 2-tone pattern that is most common to the grade 89, and is seen very often on the 1920's era grade 89 movements.

It is hard to say from a photo whether the pattern is the original factory finish or has been retouched ... but I have noticed on some of the 1920's era 2-tone Illinois watches I've seen that the boundaries of the gold regions are not nearly as crisp as in the earlier Illinois 2-tones. Has anyone else found this on these later 2-tones?

Fred

[Kate N]

Wow--it truly surprises me that it could be original, as it looks so sloppy, to me. I would have thought that the lines of "brassing" would be crisp and straight--staying between the lines, rather than extending past the damaskeened lines (especially evident on the left side of the 3rd and 4th lines from the top).
It would be nice if it is indeed a factory finish. Too bad records of these lesser details weren't maintained.
Kent, thanks for adding info as to the gilt trim. Your observation is correct--all that you thought is gilded, is.
Fred, I hope there are some replies by those who've seen a number of these.
Many thanks to everyone.
I knew I could count on you knowledgeable guys for the info I sought and I'm even happier that you've supplied even more!

Kate