Waltham Model 1857 Stemwinders, Redux

[MikeB]

Hi -

A while back, I posted a message regarding Waltham Model 1857 Stemwinders, and got lots of great information.

I have now seen something new to me which is confusing. This, in itself, is nothing new. I am frequently confused.

I have seen some pics (though do not have the watch) of a Model 1857 Waltham Watch Co. grade, serial number 597986. The watch is stem wind and it has the "PATENT" let down screw. However, the watch appears to have no lever and is set up for key setting from the front - exactly like a factory key wind and set '57. I have no pictures with the dial off, so this is the extent of my knowledge. I have looked up this serial number in the Waltham Identification guide, and it indicates "SW" in the plate column. (I suppose that this means stem wind?).

Okay, so my question is:

Were factory stem wind and key set Model 1857 watches made, or could this watch be the result of some sort of weird mating of parts?

Thanks!
Mike.

[MikeB]

Hi -

A while back, I posted a message regarding Waltham Model 1857 Stemwinders, and got lots of great information.

I have now seen something new to me which is confusing. This, in itself, is nothing new. I am frequently confused.

I have seen some pics (though do not have the watch) of a Model 1857 Waltham Watch Co. grade, serial number 597986. The watch is stem wind and it has the "PATENT" let down screw. However, the watch appears to have no lever and is set up for key setting from the front - exactly like a factory key wind and set '57. I have no pictures with the dial off, so this is the extent of my knowledge. I have looked up this serial number in the Waltham Identification guide, and it indicates "SW" in the plate column. (I suppose that this means stem wind?).

Okay, so my question is:

Were factory stem wind and key set Model 1857 watches made, or could this watch be the result of some sort of weird mating of parts?

Thanks!
Mike.

[Tom McIntyre]

The 1857 model comes in a wide variety of winding and setting mechanisms. Probably the strangest is the one you are talking about with stem wind and key set.

They also appear with several varieties of lever setting, button setting, etc.

If you look under the dial of your watch there is not, nor ever was, any provision for setting the hands. i.e. there is no means to move the crown connection from the winding to a setting position.

------------------
Tom McIntyre
Past President, NAWCC Chapter 174
Pocket Horology Web (http://www.pocketwatch.org)
Tommy the JOAT's Web (http://www.AWCo.org)

[MikeB]

Hi Tom,

Thanks. You mention button setting 1857 models in passing too. I had no idea that such watches exist. I know about the 1870 Crescent Street button setting ones, but no 1857's. Perhaps Waltham was still in the experimental stage as far as winding and setting systems go, and they were trying new things.


Mike.

[mikeh]

Tom,

Since the SW/KS version is unique, and due to this scarce arrangement, I suspect that the cases are even more uncommon. How were these originally cased? I assume a hunter with a hinged bezel, but with no notch in the bezel or frame for a lever. Is this correct? I don't recall seeing anything other than a keywind hunter with a hinged bezel, but [until now] I can't say that I've been looking very close.

Regards,
Mike

[Tom McIntyre]

I have only had uncased movements. It presumably had no lever slot unless the jeweler cased it in a case with a pre-cut slot.

While they are more common on 1870 models than on 1857 models, I think all the available setting mechanisms from the 1868 to 1879 period can probably be found on the 1857 model. The 1857 is the only one I have seen with stem wind and key set.

There are 3 different forms of setting lever and 3 implementations of the "push to set" mechanism. The "push to set" are button, nail set, and nail set with Fitch's patent.

The levers are 1868 pull out patent, 1872 rocking lever, and 1879 pull out. As I recall there are many variations on the last one that all look pretty much alike on the outside but there are several different patents.

------------------
Tom McIntyre
Past President, NAWCC Chapter 174
Pocket Horology Web (http://www.pocketwatch.org)
Tommy the JOAT's Web (http://www.AWCo.org)