need info

[stephenradford]

my cousin gave me two pocket watches to find some information and value.the first as the description american waltham watch co and a number 7220495 on the inside. on the case it as fahys 14k monarch number 500404 under monarch is a number 1 the design is like a shell with a flower pattern inscribed.the 2nd is a bit of a mystery on the front you can see a dial with roman numbers round with a round window. on the inside dial there is no markings.on the inside back cover it reads moon trade mark A.L.D dennison watch case. the only other marking is it says swiss made 17 jewels. please post me your expert advice,thanks

[stephenradford]

my cousin gave me two pocket watches to find some information and value.the first as the description american waltham watch co and a number 7220495 on the inside. on the case it as fahys 14k monarch number 500404 under monarch is a number 1 the design is like a shell with a flower pattern inscribed.the 2nd is a bit of a mystery on the front you can see a dial with roman numbers round with a round window. on the inside dial there is no markings.on the inside back cover it reads moon trade mark A.L.D dennison watch case. the only other marking is it says swiss made 17 jewels. please post me your expert advice,thanks

[Kent]

Hi stephenradford:

Welcome to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

The American Waltham Watch Co. (Waltham, MA) had its origins in the 1850's. It was the first successful company in America to manufacture watches in mass production using machinery to make identical (or at least, near identical) parts. Over the next hundred years or so of its existence, its output of jeweled watches (over 34 million) was only exceeded by one other company, the National Watch Co. at Elgin, IL. Commonly referred to as "Waltham," the company made a full line of watches ranging from modest, affordable watches to some of the finest watches made in this country. An 1884 article on the American Watch Co. (http://members.aol.com/gfrauen10/walthampage.html) is available on Greg Frauenhoff's website.

You can find out some basic facts about your Waltham watch by entering the serial number on the movement (the "works") in the field on the Serial Number link accessable from the NAWCC Information Storage (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/walsernum.htm) website. Don't use any commas in entering the serial number. There is also a Glossary (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/Glossary.htm) of the terms provided by the serial number lookup. Note: When a number appears by itself in the Comment Column, it is the page in the factory serial list where the entry and explaination appeared. i.e. "Comment 42" is on page 42 of “Serial Numbers With Description of Waltham Watch Movements,” Waltham Watch Co., Waltham, MA, 1954, (commonly referred to as "The Gray Book"). Or, a similar search may be done at the Swiss - Waltham Website (http://www.waltham.ch/cgi/waltham/search.asp). This website also has a short history of the American Waltham Watch Co. and other interesting information. But, as old ref::Tom McIntyre Pointed Out, more complete information is available at the NAWCC Information Storage website.

Should the date not be listed in the search of the NAWCC Information Storage - Waltham Serial Number Data Base, Oldwatch.com's Waltham Production Date Chart (http://www.oldwatch.com/walthamdate.html), or the PocketWatchSite's Waltham Date Table (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/walthamserials.html) are a means for determining the approximate production date. In general, we think of serial number lists (not just for Waltham, but for other watch manufacturers as well) to only be accurate within a year or two at best, and recognize that there are numerous exceptions wherein which the dates may be off as much as 3 years or more.

Having checked serial number 7220495 at the above mentioned sites, it can be seen to be an 18-size, grade No. 1, 7-jewel movement, built in about 1897. You can see a brief description of Waltham's grade No. 1, and where it fit in Waltham's line, on page 191 of the 1896 Marshall Field Jewelry Catalog at:
www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1896_Marshall_Field/m_index.html

To view, go to the Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page at elginwatches.com, then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on 'Go'.

Only a small percentage of American watches (or Swiss watches for the North American market) were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's (even then, uncased movements were furnished to the trade at least until the 1960's). Most watch companies just made movements (the "works") in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments.

Or, watches were sold by mail-order. Large outfits such as Sears, Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, or T. Eaton (in Canada), would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs. Smaller mail-order retailers would case the watches, typically in a 20-year gold filled case and offer it only that way, with the buyer not having a choice of cases.

The book, "History of the American Watch Case," Warren H. Niebling, Whitmore
Publishing, Philadelphia, PA, 1971 (available on loan by mail to members from the NAWCC Library & Research Center (http://www.nawcc.org/Library/library.htm)), has the following to say about Joseph Fahys & Co. (which includes additional Notes in Blue by Michael Harrold): Joseph Fahys came to the United States in 1848 and opened a shop in New York City in 1857. In 1861 he built another factory in Carlstadt, NJ and ran it under the name of Foutenbach & Sons (Or, the Fortenback case company in Carlstadt was organized and built entirely by the Fortenbach family, although Fahys may have been their distributor) until 1878 when it was re-named under Joseph Fahys. In 1882, operations moved to Sag Harbor, NY, which is a former whaling port on Long Island (and where Fahys' wife was from). See Sag Harbor In Its Industrial Heyday: The Watchcase Factory (http://www.sagharboronline.com/history_files/hist04.htm).

Fahys seemed to have only made gold-filled, silver and Oresilver (nickel) cases from the late 1880's and up to 1910 (where my research drops off). However, starting in the mid-1890s, Joseph Fahys & Co. is listed (in ads) as the General Agent for the Brooklyn Watch Case Co., a manufacturer of solid gold cases, of which, Fahys was one of the original directors upon its inception in 1873. It is difficult to tell how actively involved he was, or was not, with the company. Fahys brought the Brooklyn Watch Case Co. to Sag Harbor in the late 1890s, as sometime leading up to the turn of the century, ownership of Brooklyn passed to Fahys. The company went out of business during the Great Depression. Interestingly, according to "Fahys of Sag Harbor, New York, Part 1," John H. Wilterding, Jr., NAWCC Bulletin, No. 332 (June 2001), pp. 316-24, in 1937 the Bulova Watch Co. leased part of the Fahys Sag Harbor factory building. Bulova made watch cases there until the plant was closed in 1980.

Fahys' Monarch grade case is a 14 Kt Gold-filled case, Guaranteed For 21-Years Past 1887 (http://photos15.flickr.com/20158346_fcc4e04267_o.jpg), 20-Years After February 1897 (http://photos17.flickr.com/20158347_a6489114b6_o.jpg).

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The case on your Swiss watch was made by the Dennison Watch Case Co. Referring to the Dennison Watch Case Co., "This was the most successful and best known of the English watch case manufacturers ..." says "Watch Case Makers of England," Philip T. Priestley, NAWCC Bulletin Supplement 20, Spring, 1994, on page 69. It was founded in Birmingham in 1874 by Aaron Lufkin Dennison (ALD), a person instrumental in the development of the American watch industry. Mr. Priestley says on page 70, "Over the years, Dennisons made cases for Dreyfus, Newmark, Omega, Smiths, Rotary, Avia, Vertex, Rolex, Rone, Rotherham, Thormens, Perrin, Benson, Dimier, Hirst, British Watchcase Co. Ltd., March & Lobin, Huber, Zenith, Gibson, Longines, Marvin, Cortebert, Marc Fauvre, Baume, Marchand & Tobin, Medana and Roamer."

Mr. Priestley's book reproduces a 1906 Dennison Watch Case Co. ad detailing four different registered marks:

ALD - Silver, 9 ct. and 18 ct. gold (there are no periods between the letters).
Sun - 25 Year Gold-Filled (may also be marked with "A.L.D.")
Moon - 20 Year Gold-Filled (may also be marked with "A.L.D.")
Star - 10 Year Gold-Filled (may also be marked with "A.L.D.")

Good luck,

[stephenradford]

Thanks Kent its a pleasure to know that somebody outthere is willing to take time out and find all the information as you have done.
THANK YOU....