Help - Is There A Story On This Watch?

[doug sinclair]

Hi there dkm,

According to Merggers & Ehrhardt, American Pocket Watches ID & Price Guide. HOA Press,
p o box 9808, Kansas City, Missouri, 64134, ISBN 0-913902-53-5, still in print and available from horological book sellers, your watch could be an 18 size, model 1, keywind, gilt Illinois. If the case is in fact coin silver and indeed of American manufacture, it is probably coin (.900 fine) silver. Post the movement (works) serial number and we'll try to confirm this info. For the future, case serial numbers rarely mean much, but MOVEMENT serial numbers can tell a whole lot.

Doug S.

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[Kent]

dkm:

Doug is right, its the movement serial number that counts. It would be helpful if you could post a picture of the movement. We may be able to confirm the identity if its an Illinois, or otherwise identify it by the shape of the plates. Larry Jones has written up a useful article on
Image Posting (http://www.larjones.com/data/imagehelp.html), which may be helpful. If you have a problem posting the picture, you can attach it to an e-mail to me (by clicking on the speeding letter at the top of my post) and I'll post it for you.

Only a small percentage of American watches were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's. Most watch companies just made movements in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments.

Meanwhile, here's a little something on the Bay State Watch Case Co. A 1892 Bay State Ad (http://www.knology.net/~ksinger/bay_state.jpg) shows, in its bottom line, that they made silver cases. In fact, I think that I have one or two watches in Bay State silver case.

Good luck,
Kent

[This message has been edited by Kent (edited 07-03-2001).]

[Kent]

dkm has sent the following information to me. Hopefully, pictures of the movement will be forthcoming.


"Thank you so much for the quick and useful info. Below is the ID I have

"The case no (inner case around he "movement" works) and again on the outer case #44100

"The inner number is 567049 on a gold faceplate, ornately engraved with the Fisk name and Epping N.H. with some other embelishment engraving as well."


Neither Doug nor I thought to mention, or explain, in our previous posts that your watch is what's known as a 'private label,' or 'contract,' watch. Just about all the watch companies, including the Swiss firms, would mark both the watch movements and/or the dials in just about any manner for any customer who wished to pay for the service. I don't have any exact referrences for the costs, but I've heard (read?) that, for some companies, if five or more watches were ordered, there was no charge for marking the movements. Special dials were said to cost 25 or 50 cents each. These watches were contracted for by a large range of companies, from Sears, Roebuck down to the smaller jewelers in the little towns.

An Illinois movement with the serial number 567049 would be, as Doug said, a keywind hunting-case (one with a metal cover over the crystal and dial) watch. If you can confirm that its a watch like this, it would help.

If it is, this is almost right for a Bay State case (according to "History of the American Watch Case," Warren H. Niebling, Whitmore Publishing, Philadelphia, PA, 1971, Bay State started around 1889). Illinois serial number 567049 was built around 1887 (per "American Pocket Watches Serial Number Grade Book, 1993 Prices," Roy Ehrhardt & William Meggers, Jr., Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1993 - this is still in print, see Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com)). Both dates are approximate and watches may well have sat in inventory for several years before being sold.

So, if you can get a digital picture of the movement (the "works") and post it or e-mail a copy to me and I'll post it, we can try to do better to identify your watch.

Good luck,
Kent

[Kent]

Here is a picture of dkm's watch.

http://www.knology.net/~ksinger/f_p_fisk_mvt_dk_mahoney.jpg

It certainly does look like, as Doug determined, an Illinois model 1 keywind.

Kent