First Watch ( and a Geo Badeau ques)

[Rick White]

CR,
Please note the no "request for values" in red at the top of the screen. Please repost you question since you are not registered and can't edit. I will delete any messages with value requests.

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Rick White
Pocket Watches Moderator

[Tom McIntyre]

Rick, forgive me for butting in, but I think he is asking for relative values and not value per se. You could edit his post to remove the dollar amount references.

I think the Elgin grade 162 is roughly equivalent to the Waltham Riverside Maximus in the 16 size.

The E. Howard Watch Co. Series 8 23J watch is roughly equivalent to the Waltham Riverside Maximus 12 size.

The Illinois Sangamo Special bridge models are probably about equivalent to the Riv. Max also. The Hamilton 950 early examples with the gold wheel train are also the same general class of watch.

I would think that any of these would be a fine first collectible watch.

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Tom McIntyre
President, NAWCC Chapter 174
Pocket Horology Web (http://www.pocketwatch.org)
Tommy the JOAT's Web (http://www.mcintyre.com/McIntyre)

[Steve Maddox]

C.R.

I suspect that the Geo Badeau watch you mention is probably a "private label," in which event it could have been made by virtually any American watch company, as well as a multitude of foreign ones. If you can post a picture of it, someone here can probably give you a pretty good idea of who made it, especially if it is an American product.

In reference to the Waltham Riverside Maximus, I'm afraid that I must respectfully disagree with Tom. To my way of thinking, the Riverside Maximus models -- especially the 16s ones -- are virtually in a class by themselves. They have several amenities that were never found together in any other American watch of which I am aware, and while they were not the highest priced watch produced, many people believe that they are actually the highest grade.

Don't get me wrong, all of the watches Tom mentioned are outstanding, but the Maximus stands out above them all, at least in my opinion. Most 16s, 23j Maximus models have 4 diamond endstones (two on the balance and two more on the escape wheel). They also have profuse damascening, arched top pallet stones, hollow ground escape wheels with solid gold centers, etc. They truly are outstanding watches, and I would be surprised if you could find one in the price range you mentioned above.

Several watch companies made "prestige" models, of which the Riverside Maximus was only one. The most expensive Waltham model produced was the Premier Maximus, and these are quite uncommon, at least compared to the Riverside Maximus models, which were produced in fairly significant numbers over a long period of time. The E. Howard Watch Company's entry into this category was the Edward Howard model, which like the Premier Maximus, is an extremely high grade watch. To see one of these, check out Tom's website, as he bought one of these out of my "back yard" sometime ago. They are somewhat unique among American watches in that they have blue sapphire jewels, and "wolf's teeth" winding wheels.

Hope this helps!


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Steve Maddox
VP, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

[BUZZ BAZARNICKI]

C.R.,

Ya might consider the Hamilton 12s 23J 920,922,or 922 MP.(MASTERPIECE)

Or for that matter....the Hamilton 23 jewel 16 size 950,which in my humble opinion http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif ,is/was the finest watch ever made!! :biggrin:

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BUZZ BAZARNICKI
ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGIST
HAMILTON SPECIALIST
MEMBER #120851 NAWCC
PAST V.P.CHAPTER # 52

[Rick White]

The message is edited, and relative or not I am not allowed to have requests for values posted on the board. Thats the way I read it.
Now back to the thread which I really enjoy. Unlike many of us CR seems to be doing a little research before he purchases his first watch.I believe shopping around and asking more experienced collectors can only help.The Shugart book is a great introduction to qualites you would want to have in a watch. Of primary importance is to know why you want it. If you want to wear it daily a nice RR watch or a good grade 12 size may be in order. If you just want to buy a great watch and admire it, some of the watches suggested are very good. Of course it depends on how deep your pockets are. The important thing is to find out what you like and buy the best quality you can afford. Don't buy broken watches unless you can fix them and have the parts, or have a relationship with a good watchmaker. Some "cheap" watches in need of repair can turn out to cost more than one that runs nicely. Join the NAWCC and talk to the other collectors, read books, read books, and more books. It sounds like you are already starting to get an idea of what you like, I am sure you would do well with any of the watches you mention. I am not familiar with the private label name you mention is it a Waltham??

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Rick White
Pocket Watches Moderator